Help Diagnosing A New Angel

[confusion]

1. Water parameters. (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH, temp', Hardness etc)
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 40
ph: 6.5
temp: 80F

2. A full description of the fishes symptoms.
New angel, got him yesterday. did a drip acclimation for about 60 minutes.
The angel us more or less staying in one spot and ignores food. He's mostly black and I've noticed that he seems to have a very small amount of white slime on him.

3. How often you do water changes and how much.
It's a relatively new tank, normally do 20% weekly changes - did a 50% change yesterday after adding the angels
4. Any chemicals and treatments you add to the water.
none
5. What tank mates are in the tank.
2 black mollies, 2 other angels (all juvi's), male and female dwarf gourami, 3 swordtail fry and 3 otos.
6. Tank size.
37G cube. It's well planted and has several hiding places.
7. Finally Have you recently added any new fish?
yes - this one.

It does swim around, mostly stays with the other angels, looks at food as it falls by and seems generally lethargic, but then again angels are not exactly the most active of fish. Any advice on diagnosing what's wrong?

 

[Tolak]

It could just be getting acclimated. I would give it a couple more days before trying any meds.

 

[confusion]

It does seem to be a lot more active in the past hour or so, so I'll keep an eye on him. Thanks for the response.

 

[EvilMonkey666]

yup hes acclimating. The white slime you might see on him I have had on my angels when I purchased them and I believe its from the dirty water at pet store. That will go away with time.

 

[confusion]

I get a little jumpy. My track record has shown that any fish I get that doesn't more or less eat immediately after being introduced is destined to die, and those that do have a very very good chance of surviving. Then again, I have never had angels before.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Many folks will tell you not to feed new fish for anywhere from a few hours to a day.

Keep an eye on the angel to be sure it is not shedding its slime coat which is a very bad sign.

Get and use a Q tank for all new fish.

 

[WILDER]

Watch out for sign of flicking and rubbing on objects, slime can also be due to poor water quality as lfs don't always have great water quality.

 

[confusion]

well, in keeping with my experience, fish that don't eat die. He was stuck to the filter intake when I got home today.

I have a 10G QT, which I normally acclimate them in. I did so with two other angels I got last week who died within hours. When I took them back to petsmart, they rightly asked me lots of questions about their environment, and told me that they will not warrant an angel fish who is kept in a tank smaller than a 20G.

After the 2 that died, I got 3 from a different store. None of them really ate anything. One of them died today, another is eating a bit, but spening most of his time with his nose in the top corner of the tank, and the 3rd either hides under a stump like decoration or swims up and down and up and down at the front of the tank, but does not eat. I suspect she will die shortly.

oh, and no flicking or rubbing by the angels, or any of the other fish.

 

[WILDER]

Don't likie the sound of the fish swimming up and down the tank it's a sign of stress.
What was the ph of the store to your tank.

 

[Tolak]

When a new fish dies that quickly there is't much you can do in the way of meds. It usually has more to do with differences in water parameters & the acclimation process used. If the fish were actually sick when you purchased them, you should be able to go to the store you bought them from & see the same percentage of deaths that you experienced.

I would try drip acclimating over a few hours time while observing them. This will minimize the stress, stressed fish tend to hide, don't eat, and other such abnormal behaviors.

 

[confusion]

As predicted, another one died late last night. One left, and he's not eating or active either. I suspect he'll be dead by tomorrow

I've closely examimed both dead fish, and neither had any physical symptoms. Behaviorally, they pretty much ignored food, hovered together or parked in the top corner of the tank.

With these particular angels, I did a drip acclimation over a 1 hour period. I does make sense that it's a ph change - maybe angels are more sensitive to that than other fish? Nexty time, I will test the ph of their water. Is there a rule of thumb about how long to take for acclimation, say for each ph point?
It's been my experience that petsmart won't admit or simply does not know of it's mortality rate.

 

[WILDER]

At this moment i wouldnt rule ph shock out, it can takes hours to climatise them if there quite a difference in the lfs ph to your tank.
Also check when they got the fish in, as to many lfs sell fish when they just gotten them and don't give them time to settle in before they are out again, most of them end up dying of shock and stress due to all the movng about from tank to tank.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/...?article_id=392

 

[confusion]

So, I had a moment of clarity last night and decided to treat the last remaining angel for internal parasites. I just got home from work and fed them, and he's eating!!! He's coming out from his hiding spot and seeking out food. That's a pretty huge improvement over yesterday evening. I can't be 100% sure it was the treatment, but the angel certainly seemed to be heading down the same road as the others.

In case you're wondering, I used a half dose of jungle tank buddies anti-parasite meds. I recalled back to when I was having lots of problems with swordtails dying right after being introduced, the ONLY way I could keep them alive was by treating them for internal parasites. I'm wondering if the petsmart fish stock supply chain is infected with internal parasites....

Note, though, that the angel is still a little shy and hides under my stump decoratiion thing, but he comes out quite a bit also.

 

[WILDER]

Livebearers are prone to internal parasites if they are wild caught, guppies are the worst for them, good luck.
Yes lfs tank can be infested with them it only takes one.