Have No Idea What Is Happening

[krazykatlady]

I am at a loss as to what to try next.....I have a planted 125 gal. Megaflow freshwater with all community fish. I originally had a 55 gal. & moved those fish to this tank in August 2008. All but a couple of fish survived the move. Since the move, I have added several new assorted fish & plants. Over the last month, I have lost 2-6 fish every day, mpst of them Guppies. I did see some fish flashing, so I have treated with API General Cure (Metronidazole), Clout, & Jungle's Parasite Clear. I also removed a couple of fish in the beginning, & treated them in my hospital tank, but I saw more fish flashing, so I decided to treat the display tank. I addition to the fish in my picture, there are many fry that you cannot see. I have lost both adult & juvenille fish.

Tank size: 125 gal.
pH: 7.7
ammonia: 0 ppm
nitrite: 0 ppm
nitrate: 20 ppm
kH: 8
gH: unknown
tank temp: 75-76 f

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Some Guppies may look slightly bloated. As for the Platies & Mollies, sometimes they will sit at the bottom of the tank or hide in the foliage, fins clamped, won't eat for 1-2 days. Then I find them dead.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 25-30 gallons every 7-10 days

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Aqua Safe foe water changes, Stress Zyme (not in about 3 weeks), aquarium salt (not in about 3-4 weeks). In the wet/dry: Black Diamond carbon, Ammo Chips, Nitra-Zorb (for about 1 month).

Tank inhabitants: Approximately 45-50 assorted community fish: 6 Scissor Tails, 5 Serpar Tetras, assorted Mollies, Platies, & Guppies, 6 Otos

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): All I have added in the past 3 weeks are plants.

Exposure to chemicals: As per above

Digital photo (include if possible): Won't let me attach - file too large

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[LauraFrog]

The platys and mollies that you found at the bottom with clamped fins - were they skinny?

I had problems with livebearers where they would act normal but become increasingly thin. Finally they would stop eating, clamp their fins, hover at the top or bottom of the tank, and after a few days, die. Are yours skinny? I don't know what was killing mine but it might have been a mixture of bacteria and parasites. At any rate, I saved three or four of my favourites by treating with tetracycline for three days, and then with praziquantel (anti parasitic) for two days.

 

[Colin_T]

Guppies will often carry bacterial infections that kill them and other livebearers but don't affect other types of fish. I would try a course of Waterlife Protozin or Wardleys Promethyasul and see how that goes.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

Before you treat the tank do a 50% water change and complete gravel clean. This will reduce the gunk in the tank and allow the medication to work more effectively. It will also lower the pathogen count in the water and mean there are less nasties around to infect the fish.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating otherwise it will absorb the medication out of the water. If you had carbon in the filter when you treated the fish it would have removed the medication before it had a chance to work.

Metronidazole should not be used unless you know what the problem is. It is designed to treat humans and using it on fish when they may not need it, can lead to problems further down the track.

You should quarantine all new fish before adding them to an established tank, especially livebearers like guppies. Any small container that holds 20litres or more can be used for this. Keep the new fish isolated from the other for at least a couple fo weeks and then if they are ok, add them to the display tank.

 

[krazykatlady]

The platys and mollies that you found at the bottom with clamped fins - were they skinny?

I had problems with livebearers where they would act normal but become increasingly thin. Finally they would stop eating, clamp their fins, hover at the top or bottom of the tank, and after a few days, die. Are yours skinny? I don't know what was killing mine but it might have been a mixture of bacteria and parasites. At any rate, I saved three or four of my favourites by treating with tetracycline for three days, and then with praziquantel (anti parasitic) for two days.

My Platies & Mollies looked good - not skinny at all. That's part of the reason I don't know what to treat for or with. I just completed a water change testerday, & my next step was going to be to treat with Maracyn.

Hope your fish are doing better now.

 

[krazykatlady]

Guppies will often carry bacterial infections that kill them and other livebearers but don't affect other types of fish. I would try a course of Waterlife Protozin or Wardleys Promethyasul and see how that goes.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

Before you treat the tank do a 50% water change and complete gravel clean. This will reduce the gunk in the tank and allow the medication to work more effectively. It will also lower the pathogen count in the water and mean there are less nasties around to infect the fish.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating otherwise it will absorb the medication out of the water. If you had carbon in the filter when you treated the fish it would have removed the medication before it had a chance to work.

Metronidazole should not be used unless you know what the problem is. It is designed to treat humans and using it on fish when they may not need it, can lead to problems further down the track.

You should quarantine all new fish before adding them to an established tank, especially livebearers like guppies. Any small container that holds 20litres or more can be used for this. Keep the new fish isolated from the other for at least a couple fo weeks and then if they are ok, add them to the display tank.

Colin_T

Thank you for your suggestions. I haven't actually vacuumed the substrate as it is EcoComplete, & this is the first time I have not used gravel. When I try to vacuum it (I have a Python), it looks like I am removing the entire top of the substrate.

Any time I treat the aquarium, I remove the carbon, even if it is over 7 days old. Most of the packaging tells you it doesn't affect the medication, but I take it out anyway.

I have used Metronidazole before to treat my bird, & after searching the few lfs we have here (I'm in Jacksonville, FL), I thought this may help. I lo0oked up the medication you recommended, & will try to find it locally today.

On the quarantine issue, I know I should have quarantined the newbies, but I have waited a long time to upgrade my tank, & I let my excitement take over.
Really bad move, I know.

If you have any other suggestions, anything is appreciated.

K

 

[Colin_T]

You could try adding rock or sea salt at the rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20litres (5gallons) of water. The only fish that might get upset are the otocinclus but they should tolerate that level.

Ammo chips are normally used to remove ammonia from the water. They should be recharged regularly, or better still, remove it and don't use it. A healthy established biological filter will remove any ammonia produced by the fish. It will also provide a more stabile environment for the inhabitants because the ammonia levels won't build up when the Ammo Chips are full.

You should be able to get Wardley's Promethyasul in the USA but Waterlife products can be hard to get there.
If possible do a big water change each day until you get the medication. The water changes will help dilute the pathogens in the water and should help reduce mortalities.

 

[krazykatlady]

You could try adding rock or sea salt at the rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20litres (5gallons) of water. The only fish that might get upset are the otocinclus but they should tolerate that level.

Ammo chips are normally used to remove ammonia from the water. They should be recharged regularly, or better still, remove it and don't use it. A healthy established biological filter will remove any ammonia produced by the fish. It will also provide a more stabile environment for the inhabitants because the ammonia levels won't build up when the Ammo Chips are full.

You should be able to get Wardley's Promethyasul in the USA but Waterlife products can be hard to get there.
If possible do a big water change each day until you get the medication. The water changes will help dilute the pathogens in the water and should help reduce mortalities.

I was keeping aquarium salt in the tank, but have read so many conflicting ideas about whether or not it is helpful, I stopped adding it about a month ago.

I am still using the ammo chips just to be sure I don't get any ammonia build up. I had a Emperor 400 filter on my 55 gal, & I really liked it. I have the bio wheels floating in my sump now. This is the first time I have had a large filter like this, & it seems like it will take a long time for the good bacteria to get established on the balls in the filter. Should I continue to use the carbon?

Will do another water change today. So far this morning, haven't found any dead fish for the first time in over 2 weeks. At this point, I have lost almost all of my guppies though.

This is the first time I have posted on a forum, so I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly. Tried to upload pictures of my tank & filter, but files are apparently too large.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[LauraFrog]

If you're running Windows you should have Windows Picture and Fax viewer. Open the picture in that. Make sure nothing is obscuring it. Then press the print screen key (prt scrn) which is usually at the top right of the keyboard. Open MS Paint. Hit Ctrl-V to paste the image. Move it so that only the photo is visible. Change the size of the paint screen so that only your photo is there. Then save it as a JPG image and try uploading it again.

Guppies are very delicate due to generations upon generations of inbreeding to create fancy patterns and enlarge the fins. Personally I think they are now so delicate that they require a species aquarium or very careful choice of tankmates to suit specialised water conditions. If you can find endler's guppy or endler's livebearer (two names for the same thing) or a guppy/endler hybrid, you will probably have better luck because the endler is nowhere near as inbred or as delicate. They are a lot more likely to thrive in a community aquarium. Adding salt to your tank isn't really an option with the tetras and otos in there.

If you use antibiotics or staining products (malachite green and methylene blue - many medications contain these ingredients which are very easy to recognise because of the colour) keep a close eye on your ammonia and nitrite as sometimes these medications reduce the population of bacteria in the filter.

 

[nosoup4you]

I like the Microsoft PowerToys image re-sizer. You can download it free here: http/www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloa...ppowertoys.mspx. Once you have downloaded and installed it, you just right-click on an image and you will get the option to re-size.

 

[Colin_T]

Salt can do wonders for certain fishes like mollies and guppies. Unfortunately some fish won’t tolerate high levels of it, eg: Corydoras and Discus.
The salt can increase the hardness of the water and if you add enough, then it makes it more difficult or even kills a lot of freshwater diseases. Salt also helps relax fish and that can help in itself. Calm fish are less stressed and less prone to disease.

If you have ammo chips in the filter they will absorb the ammonia and prevent the beneficial filter bacteria from developing. Ammonia absorbing granules should only be used if you have a really high reading of ammonia (after the level goes down remove the ammonia), or you are using a quarantine tank without an established filter.
A big filter will take the same amount of time to build up the good bacteria as a small filter. The filter size doesn’t make much difference other than holding more filter media and trapping more gunk. The bacterial colony will grow to a certain size and that is it. The size of their population is determined by the amount of ammonia in the water. If you have lots of fish, there will be more ammonia and more bacteria will grow. If you have 1 small fish it won’t produce much ammonia and only a small colony of bacteria will develop. Likewise the more food going into the tank, the more ammonia that will be produced.

I would remove the ammo chips and carbon and leave them out permanently. The carbon will absorb any medication you put in the tank to treat the fish and prevent it from working. Carbon will also absorb plant fertilisers.
If you get an ammonia reading then do a 50% water change each day until it has gone.