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Guppy Tail Badly Damaged

Discussion in 'Tropical Fish Emergencies' started by VEK28, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. VEK28

    VEK28 Member

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    A bit of a repost from another I made, the inital query is getting more urgent!

    *** Inital Post ****

    Over the past day or so I have noticed that one of my Guppys (a yellow neon) has chunks of his tail missing. I noticed last night, and this morning it is worse.

    The fish is spending most of his time at the back of the tank away from the others, and appears to be keeping out of the way of the suspected bully (a red leopard).

    I have just seperated the fish by putting the Red leopard in a breeding net, and the yellow neon has come out a bit. However, I have just noticed a small white lump/bump near his head.

    The question is, is this a clear case of bullying from the other fish, if so, what could this lump be? If its not bullying, then what else could be the problem?

    List of fish in the tank

    4 plattys
    4 corys
    2 red leopard guppys
    2 yellow neons.

    Tank is 60l Juewl Rekord. water changes are done weekly, water tests are fine as of the weekend. Temp 25c

    A little history. We orignally had 2 red leopards, however one died. We then got 1 new red leopard and the 2 yellow neons at the same time. The new guppys were added about a month ago, and this is the first time any problems seem to have occured.

    ** Update ***

    Today the fishes tail had even more missing, and this evening I have returned to find it looking even worse. There is a small hole in it now as well as a big tear all the way down, I think about half the tail is missing.

    As before the supspected bully has been into a breeding net to try and give the other fish a rest, and he is now swimming around the best he can.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
     
  2. VEK28

    VEK28 Member

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    Some pics of the probelm tail. Not very good, but hopefully gives an idea of what it looks like.

    1st one he was at the back, 2nd one he had come foward to see me, but kept moving about (good thing I suppose!)

    guppy2.jpg



    guppy1.jpg
     
  3. AmyStardust

    AmyStardust Member

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    Looks like something similar to what I'm dealing with Hun - my male guppy's lost half his tail now! :(

    I'm not very experienced so I can't really advise you - wait for Wilder to come online! ;)

    Good luck! :good:
     
  4. VEK28

    VEK28 Member

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    Yes, I read through your post after I posted this and thought it seems similar, though I'm not sure if its the same problem. With mine, it does seem like another guppy is causing the problem, where as yours seems to have a disease? Did you see the damage happening very quickly, in the space of 2 days?
     
  5. WILDER

    WILDER Retired Moderator
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    Can you issolate the sick fish to a tank of its own for treatment.
    You will need a bacterial med.
    The lump does it look hard or soft like filled with fluid.
    Lumps that suddenly appear are usually bacterial.

    Seen any fin nipping going off.
    Is the fish struggling to swim.
     
  6. celaeno

    celaeno Arkangel

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    you can try isolating the fish and treating it with melafix for a week if it's just torn fins from bullying. otherwise, it might be fin rot and you'd need to use an anti-biotic treatment.
     
  7. AmyStardust

    AmyStardust Member

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    The tail damage was so rapid - one night I noticed a tiny hole in his tail, by the morning it was a complete rip - by that night his tail started to shred and now he only has half left :(

    I fairly sure my little guy has an internal infection of some kind - I don't think there's much hope... :-(

    Hope your little fella recovers soon! :good:
     
  8. VEK28

    VEK28 Member

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    Thanks for the replies.

    Just woken up to a further issues, which probably points to a infection in the tank..

    One of the platys, the smallest of them, has died over night. I didn't even mention him, but before I went to bed he was sitting on the bottom of the tank. I didn't worry too much as he has tended to stay near the bottom sometimes, especially at night.

    Anyway, the guppys tail dosn't look any worse today, and I left the other guppy in the breeding net overnight, so it looks like the tail problems have been caused by this guppy?

    However, the other neon guppy now has clear tail problems, although it looks different, this one has a stringy sort of trail coming of in several places, I can't tell if this is bits of tail that have been ripped or not (its not poo though as far as I can tell).

    Also, the other leopard is looking in a bad way, I noticed last night he was doing a string white poo with a lump near the end, reading around here this could be parasites? He's also hanging around the bottom of the tank this morning.

    I've let the one from the breeding net out now and given them a feed, but he seemed to be bothering the others straight away.

    Anyway to answer the questions

    Can you issolate the sick fish to a tank of its own for treatment.

    Don't have another tank setup for isolation. Do have an old goldfish tank with filter, could add a heater maybe if isolation is really needed? However from the above I think we need to treat the whole tank

    You will need a bacterial med.

    Ok. Can you advise what I would be able to pick up today from the shops? I have a pets at home as well as a dedicated fish place that I can go to.

    The lump does it look hard or soft like filled with fluid.

    I havn't been able to look at him properly, but the place where the lump was now looks different, kinda like its under the skin, before it look like a sort of fluid coming out.

    Lumps that suddenly appear are usually bacterial.

    Seen any fin nipping going off.

    I'm not experienced enough to know if its fin nipping, but theres alot of following each other round the tank, sort like barding agaisnt each other. I've also seen a sort of 'dance' type thing where they face each other and kinda display their tails . I've never actually seen one taking a chunk out of a tail, however, it seems to happen when I'm not there.

    Is the fish struggling to swim.

    Not really, he tends to stay hovering around the back, but can swim when he wants to.

    Sorry for long post, In summary, I think we need to treat for bacterial infection or maybe parasites, and probably the whole tank. Can you advise what to buy and how to go about it? We run the full filter setup for the juewl, with carbon, nitrate sponge etc.
     
  9. WILDER

    WILDER Retired Moderator
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    When guppys have internal paasites such as camallanous worms they do cause bacterial infections.
    You can bet on your life when a livebearer has finrot that something else is going on.

    Signs of internal parasites are.
    long stringy white poo, or clear mucas poo, or red poo.
    Worms prutruding from the anus.
    Fish will look skinny or bloated.
    Sunken in belly.
    Enlarged anus or red inflamed anus.
    Bent spine sometimes.
    Swimming on there sides sometimes.

    I would treat the whole tank with an internal wormer.
    Internal parasites do alot of damage to the internal organs so it might be to late to save the fish that have them.

    I would treat the internal parasites first.
    There this med in the uk.
    http://www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/mal...ol%20001/198936
     
  10. VEK28

    VEK28 Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Since my post I have been out and bought the Interpet Internal bacterial med. We have just treated the tank with this, and also bought an Ario air pump (although this isn't working at the moment!)

    Sounds like maybe we have done the wrong thing. Do you think its definatly worms then? Would this have affected the Platy that died?

    Current status of fish

    1 red leopard guppy - sitting on bottom, breathing heavily. Looks a bit skinny, swimming occasionaly but at bottom. He had string poo yesterday.
    1 yellow neon - torn tail, swimming around fairly normally, his poo looked fine, short and brown.
    1 yellow neon - swimming around fine, odd stringy look to back of tail though, poo fine also.

    3 platys - seem fine
    1 red leopard - seems fine, is chasing 2nd yellow neon round tank though!

    Whats the best plan based on this info now I've gone and done the other med?


    Pics of stringy tail. Blurry I know, but gives an idea of what i'm on about. Its not poo.
    guppytail1.jpg
    guppytail2.jpg
     
  11. kribensis12

    kribensis12 I know where you live

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    I vote Fin and tail rot. Get some Melafix of something similar. It dosent take much to treat. Just follow the instructions on the bottle. Probably poor water quality. Gupppies are notoriously hard to keep ( too much inbreeding).
     
  12. VEK28

    VEK28 Member

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    Thanks. Would this be the case for all the guppys. The other leopard one (sat on the bottom) dosn't appear to have an damage to his tail.

    When you say poor water quality, is this just the levels of amonia, nitrite and nitrate, or something different? I checked the water this morning, and all levels are fine.

    Amonia - 0
    Nitrite - 0
    Nitrate 5ppm
    PH 7.6

    Also, didnt mention in last post, wilder that link dosn't work for me. Can you advise on the name of the product if you think I need it?

    Thanks
     
  13. WILDER

    WILDER Retired Moderator
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    Can you describe the blob bit that came with the long stringy white poo.
    I left a list of symtoms to internal parasites is the fish showing any more symtoms then just stringy white poo.

    Here the med info for the internal wormer.



    Sera Nematol


    Sera Nematol is a very effective remedy against nematodes such as Camallanus, roundworms (Capillaria) and discus pinworms (oxyurids) for fresh and salt water fish. A sensational R & D success: sera med Professional Nematol is the first ornamental fish treatment against Nematodes that may be sold freely. It is based on a patented Emamectin/solvent complex, highly effective and easy to dose. sera med Professional Nematol is particularly effective against Camallanus and round worms of the genus Capillaria, which mainly occur in angelfish and discus. It can also be optimally used against pinworms (Oxyurida), dreaded by discus keepers. At the same time it combats the small copepods that Camallanus uses as intermediate hosts. Result: With sera Nematol a well tolerated and highly effective ornamental fish treatment that can be sold freely is now available for the first time! It is a liquid and therefore can be dosed easily and precisely.



    Dosage for sera Nematol:

    Add 1 ml sea Nematol per each 40 litres of aquarium water. Distribute the treatment on the watrer surface from the dosage cup while stirring it into the water with a spoon or staff. Aerate the aquarium well during the treatment, switch off UV-lamps and do not filter through active carbon. A water change of at least 80% must be carried out after two days (or during the treatment if the water gets cloudy). You can combat larvae that have hatched from the eggs in the meantime with a second application of sera Nematol three weeks later.
     
  14. VEK28

    VEK28 Member

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    Thanks again for the reply. Unfortunatly the guppy with the stringy poo with the blob has now died. He was sitting around on the bottom and then we found him laying still on his side. The blob was just white, maybe 1/2 cm long, attached with a stringy bit, didn't notice anything else about it.

    Back to the living ones. The tank now has the air pump working, although we arn't sure on it. Its an Ario 2, which is for 50-100l tanks, but it seems difficult to run it on less than full power!

    The 3 guppys are now freely swiming around the tank. Bully one still seems to be harrasing the others. Noticed one of the neons doing a stringy white poo, but earlier it was a thick brown. They don't seem to have any of the other symptons of parasites. Just the tails seem to be affected on both(in different ways, as mentioned and pictured)

    Should I continue with the anti-bacterial med for a few days, or should we move straight to the worm one?
     
  15. WILDER

    WILDER Retired Moderator
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    I would carry on with the bacterial med.
    Buy the wormer med and treat in a few weeks, I worm all my fish now.
    Sorry about the one that died bless him.
    R.I.P.

    Feed some peas to give them a flush through.
    I feed peas twice a week.
    Cook frozen peas for a few minutes, let cool down and pop out of shell. Mush between fingers into small peices
    and add to the tank.
     

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