Guppy Gang?

[queenpiddle]

Hi there,

My husband I bought a Fluval Edge (6 gallon tank) for our daughter, for her 7th birthday. So far we're doing better than I expected, but we are having one major issue.
Do you mind a bit of background? Ran the tank empty for about 2 1/2 weeks starting mid-May. Introduced 2 guppies. (both still alive) Introduced 2 ghost shrimp about 2 weeks later. One died 4 hours later, the other 6 hours later. Water was tested and was fine. Waited 3 more weeks. Introduced 4 more guppies. 3 are still alive along with the original two. Here is where it gets weird. One of the 4 (newer) guppies died but not for about a week (Ferris). We had the water tested, we've changed filters and cleaned on time, etc. . . waited a couple of weeks, introduced a new guppy. He seemed okay at first, but then he started hiding a lot (often it was tough to find him -- I mean, he squished himself into crazy places). Stopped eating well, noticed he was being picked on. Petco told me we weren't feeding the fish enough, so we started feeding more, but Milo died too. Last week, we replaced Milo with Tropical. (what's with the names? She is 7) . . . Same MO -- all other guppies fine, but they seem to school, split off, go back to schooling and just the new guy is off on his own, starts hiding, stops eating. Then yesterday, my husband noticed a huge chunk of his tail missing. Petco tells me to "move the furniture around" to "trick them" (really?) but in an effort to save Tropical . . . I did just this. The tank gets cleaned the first of the month, so I cleaned the tank and moved the furniture. I even put Tropical in a glass by himself with food -- he would not eat. Shocker -- Tropical found dead this morning. Are the 5 fish ganging up on the new guy? I mean Ferris was introduced in a group of 4 but he died, then his replacement died, then that one's replacement died and it does seem like each was getting picked on. They hide and stop eating. What gives? This is very upsetting to my daughter! Thanks for reading my novel . . .

 

[shelaghfishface]

i dont think anyone is ganging up, i think youve got an over stocked un cycled tank

go to the newbie resource centre and have a read about 'cycling'





http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

 

[Mowbz]

Agreed, sounds like you've got an uncycled tank. For the meantime, you need to start with reading up on the "Fish IN Cycle". If possible, it would be good if you could rehouse them all for a while either with a friend with an established tank, or back at the store, and then do a Fishless cycle

Your going to need to do a HUGE amount of water changes, but in an Edge, that should be a dodde, perhaps only a single bucket of water?

Check out the beginers resource centre on the forum, and you'll find all you need, along with more people to answer the questions you ARE going to be back with soon lol

And

 

[queenpiddle]

Hi and thanks! Okay, I will read about cycling . . . I know a bit already, but I'm sure I can learn more.
We were told 1 inch of fish per gallon and the guppies are not even an inch each. I specifically asked because I wanted a "humane" tank.
And, why only the new guy? The original 2 and 3 of the follwing 4 are doing great! You're saying maybe it's just a 5 fish tank and the weak one dies out?
Thanks again!

 

[brian2708]

I wouldn't replace filter media either as you're throwing away established media.

 

[queenpiddle]

Thanks Fish Crazy -- but again, why only the new guy?
And, why wouldn't my tank be established now if it's been running since Mid-May and started with no fish?
I change 2 filters every other month and one filter every month (the charcoal one)
And I changed just about a bucket yesterday. I did the gravel clean (via siphon) and took about 25% of the water out.
I have done this twice thus far. Changed all filters last month, just one filter this month.
Thanks! -RW

 

[queenpiddle]

Okay, I read all about cycling and I feel like we did a pretty good job for newbies, except that we added 4 guppies to the two.
Probably should have only added 2 more, then 2 more a few weeks later.
I also read the newbies no-no list and I am guilty of one. Oops! I did in fact rince the white sponge-like filter in tap water. Ugh.
I certainly did not over-clean the gravel -- I figured some of the poop and stuff needed to stay.
Ugh . . . so I probably failed Tropical with my good intentions. He was already stressed and I probably made things worse.

Thanks everyone! Would still love more thoughts if anyone wants to chime in . . . b/c I swear Tropical had a huge chunk of his tail missing yesterday and that doesn't have anything to do with cycling . . .

 

[Mowbz]

Sorry, i should have mentioned the filter. The filter is where all of your ammonia eating bacteria will live., and your going to make them with your "cycle". Chances are, you have some already becaue your fish have been in there producing ammonia.

A few questions so we can help further;

Do you have a test kit or have the store tested the water at all? Some readings would be great right now!
Have you been using a dechorinator before changing or putting water in the tank?
You havent mentioned the heater. Is it on, and whats the temp?

Test kits are your best friend, and will give you pretty good indicators on why things are wrong in your tank. ANY amount of ammonia in the tank could be lethal to a fish, and its in your tank, now.

If you havent already, do a water change right now (if possible, and only if you have a dechlorinator)


You'll be alright soon!

I certainly did not over-clean the gravel -- I figured some of the poop and stuff needed to stay.
Ugh . . . so I probably failed Tropical with my good intentions. He was already stressed and I probably made things worse.

Thanks everyone! Would still love more thoughts if anyone wants to chime in . . . b/c I swear Tropical had a huge chunk of his tail missing yesterday and that doesn't have anything to do with cycling . . .

The first paragraph is funny You didnt fail, you've learned one waythat fish cant survive. Thats a win, if you remember it

The problem with tropical tanks is they re delicate. And a lot of the crud in the tank, is good for it! (Poop on the bottom however, just sits there producing more ammonia, getit all out )

 

[XeroTolerance]

to the forums!

I think your problem is that you did not cycle your tank and it's overcrowded. Check out the beginners section for more information on how to do a fish-in cycle.

 

[queenpiddle]

I am very frustrated (sorry!) I did cycle the tank. I cycled it fishless -- then with just 2 guppies for quite a while.
Was my fishless cycle not long enough? You can't believe the trouble I went through taking water to be tested every few days.
And, no one has explained why the 5 stay strong (if it's a cycling issue) and only the "new guy" (and orginally, one of the 4 added to the two) have died. Wouldn't I expect to see other fish dying? Or are some just naturally heartier than others and it's purely coincidental that the "new guy" is always the one to die. And, what about the HUGE chunk missing from Tropical's tail? Thanks so much! Just trying to do right by the fish and by my daughter who is not fond of flush funerals. You should have heard her cry over Silly and Goofy (the two ghost shrimps who didn't even make it overnight) . . . Can you imagine a child crying the words "silly" and "goofy" -- hard to keep a straight face . . . The original two guppies have been in since June 2. Thanks everyone! I do appreciate your tolerance!

 

[queenpiddle]

Sorry fish crazy. I missed part of your post. Let me answer your questions:

Yes, I have had multiple water tests at the store. I had at least 6 water tests done during the fishless phase of this adventure and I didn't add any fish until they said the water looked good for a fishless tank. That's when we added the two guppies (both still alive).

The ghost shrimp were just a tragedy. I mean, 4 hours and one was dead. 6 hours and the other was dead. So forget the ghost shrimp.

Water was tested after their demise and it was perfect.

Then we added the 4 new guppies (yes, should have addded only 2; now I know).

All 6 guppies lasted a week or so and then Ferris died (one of the new 4). Water tested. Ammonia high. Did a 25% water change, water tested great! I was told to do a 25% water change once a month so I have started a first of the month routine. Had water tested again after two weeks, great! Added Milo. Died. Water tested, fine. Waited again (not as long this time). Water tested, fine, Tropical is missing most of his tail yesterday and dead this morning. And he and the last one were hiding and not eating for about 3 days before death. The others are quite active. ???

Yes, I use a dechlorinator. I can tell you the brand -- AquaSafe Plus -- I also added "good bacteria" when I set up the fishless tank.

Yes, we have a heater. It is pre-set for 78 degrees F. The light turns red when it is not 78 and turns green when it is. We also have a thermometer and my daughter and I check the temp daily, it's always in the green zone.

Hope this helps you help me. Thanks again!!!

Oops. Fish Crazy - your status. Mine - Newbie. Ha and so true. Last post to Mowbz - thanks!

Xero Tolerance. How long do you plan on cycling your fishless tank?

 

[ShyKitty91]

I think they might be bullying. At least that really is what it looks like, especially if you are noticing rips in tails and such.

Are all the guppys males? Most lps I've talked to say 2 female for 1 male. and males will fight.
Someone on the forum, however, told me to get only males or I'll be over run with babies (yikes).

It may be because you introduced them at different times. (Making a mental note to add all mine at once. haha)

Tanks differ for cyling times. 2 weeks to 2 months sometimes longer.
Sounds as if your tank should be cycled by now though.

 

[queenpiddle]

I think they might be bullying. At least that really is what it looks like, especially if you are noticing rips in tails and such.

Are all the guppys males? Most lps I've talked to say 2 female for 1 male. and males will fight.
Someone one the forum, however, told me to get only males or I'll be over run with babies (yikes).

It may be because you introduced them at different times. (Making a mental note to add all mine at once. haha)

Tanks differ for cyling times. 2 weeks to 2 months sometimes longer.
Sounds as if your tank should be cycled by now though.

Yes, all male. I was told the same as you -- that I would have a tank full of babies! Of course, my daughter wouldn't complain about babies . . . ha!

I think they might be bullying. At least that really is what it looks like, especially if you are noticing rips in tails and such.

Are all the guppys males? Most lps I've talked to say 2 female for 1 male. and males will fight.
Someone one the forum, however, told me to get only males or I'll be over run with babies (yikes).

It may be because you introduced them at different times. (Making a mental note to add all mine at once. haha)

Tanks differ for cyling times. 2 weeks to 2 months sometimes longer.
Sounds as if your tank should be cycled by now though.

Yes, all male. I was told the same as you -- that I would have a tank full of babies! Of course, my daughter wouldn't complain about babies . . . ha!

And was told, that if I introduced all at once, the ammonia would spike too high. I did 2, then 4 and was told I shouldn't have added 4 at once to the 2. Go figure.

 

[Gavo]

Could the fish be overfed?

I know myself with kids, the fish always look hungry and kids cant resist


Are you changing the filter sponges for new ones every two months, this would explain a ammonia surge? at most you should just rinse the worst off of them in tank water and put then straight back in place

 

[ShyKitty91]

I think they might be bullying. At least that really is what it looks like, especially if you are noticing rips in tails and such.

Are all the guppys males? Most lps I've talked to say 2 female for 1 male. and males will fight.
Someone one the forum, however, told me to get only males or I'll be over run with babies (yikes).

It may be because you introduced them at different times. (Making a mental note to add all mine at once. haha)

Tanks differ for cyling times. 2 weeks to 2 months sometimes longer.
Sounds as if your tank should be cycled by now though.

Yes, all male. I was told the same as you -- that I would have a tank full of babies! Of course, my daughter wouldn't complain about babies . . . ha!

I think they might be bullying. At least that really is what it looks like, especially if you are noticing rips in tails and such.

Are all the guppys males? Most lps I've talked to say 2 female for 1 male. and males will fight.
Someone one the forum, however, told me to get only males or I'll be over run with babies (yikes).

It may be because you introduced them at different times. (Making a mental note to add all mine at once. haha)

Tanks differ for cyling times. 2 weeks to 2 months sometimes longer.
Sounds as if your tank should be cycled by now though.

Yes, all male. I was told the same as you -- that I would have a tank full of babies! Of course, my daughter wouldn't complain about babies . . . ha!

And was told, that if I introduced all at once, the ammonia would spike too high. I did 2, then 4 and was told I shouldn't have added 4 at once to the 2. Go figure.

If you have an established tank the new amount of ammonia will be very quickly adjusted to. It also depends how big the tank is. Mine is a 30G, so adding 5 or 6 guppys won't be as bad.