Guppies In Trouble

[Susie72]

Tank; 23 litres
Ammonia; 0.05
Nitrite; 0.01
Nitrate; 10

Water changes - 10% weekly/fortnightly, 25% once every 12 weeks when I give the gravel a good clean

I have 5 male guppies and two shrimp - originally I had 8 guppies and three shrimp, but they seem to be steadily dying off.

About 12 weeks ago the first red guppy died....he was a little lethargic one day, then the next morning I found him thrashing around the tank in a terribly distressed state, looking horribly deformed and being attacked by the others. I had to euthanise him.

I added three shrimp a couple of weeks later, and within a fortnight one of them vanished (I found his husk recently).

Next was the little yellow guppy - he had his tail very badly damaged by my original black skirt tetras about 6 months ago - I re-homed the tetras, and the guppy recovered. But he started to get very lethargic a few weeks ago, lost his appetite, and after a day or so I found him lifeless (but not marked or deformed) at the bottom of the tank.

Recently one of the large blue guppies, and another red guppy, started spending a lot of time resting on the gravel. Both of them got very bloated - their bellies look distended, and they seem to wobble from side to side when swimming. But they both remained enthusiastic about food, springing to life and stuffing their faces whenever I fed them. The blue guppy got a red tinge to the end of his tail - I treated the tank with Melafix and tonic salts, and the tinge vanished 24 hrs later.

They both seemed to recover, and for a week I had a seemingly healthy tank. But the red guppy has deteriorated again....he started off hiding a lot, and aggressively protecting his hideaway from the others. This has been going on for a fortnight.....last night he wouldn't come out of his hideaway for food (he has been eating until now), and today I notice him spending a lot of time at the surface.

This afternoon, his spine is very curved/humped, and ALL his fins are horribly clamped.

OMG.....as I was typing I looked over at the tank, and he's just been attacked by one of the shrimp!!! It chased him, grabbed him by the tail and dragged him around a bit until he managed to get free!! Poor little thing....he's now exhausted.

What do I do? I'm going away for 4 days tomorrow, I don't want him dying a horrid death at the claws of the shrimp, who clearly already think he's a goner.......

 

[nessar]

I would take the shrimp out whilst you wait for a reply, lots of medicines cant be used with invertebrates anyway. Do a large water change, 50% or so.

 

[WILDER]

Your tanks overstocked. Your water stats are telling you that.
What filter are you running.

What does it look like when the fish go to the toilet.
Is the anus enlarged or red and inflamed.
Any fish have sunken in bellys.
Any worms prutruding from the anus.

Immediate water change and gravel vac.
Do you over feed the fish.

Fish will die i;m afraid in bad water quality.
Bent spine can mean old age, fish tb, internal parasites,injury, birth defect, vitamin definciency.

Red edging to fins, bad water quality, septicemia.
Bloating, swim bladder, constipation, internal parasites, dropsy.

 

[Paradise3]

How long has the tank been set up?
What size is the tank?

Alessa x.

 

[WILDER]

The tank size is 23 litres, very small tank.
Not really ideal for guppys. Even though there small fish they need room to move seen as there active fish.
Guppys really need at least a 10 gallon tank.
The tanks sounds like it's been set up at least six months.

 

[Susie72]

Thank you for those replies.

I had water tested (after the first death) by reputable LFS - they said stats were fine, and that shrimp wouldn't add to the load? They recommended shrimp as I was getting some algae, also hence the water test. I got a decent kit and now check the stats every week....5 small guppies to 23 litres doesn't seem too bad?

Anyway, I'm pretty new to it so I guess I'm getting something wrong somewhere! I'm running the Fluval filter, its a Fluval Edge. Filter was cleaned 3 weeks ago, i.e cleaned the sponge and rinsed the media with tank water. No live plants, just silk.

Fish waste is green/black, nothing protruding from anywhere.....no sunken bellies......nothing looking inflamed or reddened.....no fish currently have any red edges to fins, it was just one of them for one day. I feed them once per day, enough for them to clear the lot in 2 mins.

Sick fishes tail is dreadfully ragged and now the other guppies are showing interest in pecking at him.

LFS warned against heavy water changes...could cause an ammonia spike Is 50% safe?

ETA yes it has been set up for around 7 months. Got all my advice from a good LFS recommended by friends who have a larger tank....although the Fluval Edge gets a bad press, the LFS seemed to think it wsa perfectly okay with good management. Which is, probably, where I'm going wrong.

 

[WILDER]

How did you clean the sponges.
You only clean one sponge at at time by rinsing slightly in old tank water.
Never clean sponges under the tap water, it kills all the benefical bacteria.

Has the shrimp injured the fish resulting in a bent spine.

Ammonia, and nitrite should be 0 in a cycled tank.

Isolate the fish if there picking on him.

 

[Susie72]

There's only one sponge...I rinsed it, as I mentioned, in tank water. LFS said rinsing the sponge thoroughly would decrease the rate at which algae was developing (I moved to a much brighter house, plus I was originally overfeeding).

I don't think he is injured, he doesn't appear distressed - just sick. I hate that he's suffering.

I don't have another tank to isolate him to, and I don't have a spare filter or heater. I know I should have something for emergencies but wasn't expecting it so soon! Are there any emergency alternatives?

I think I'm going to home the remaining guppies (assuming they're not all diseased) and sell the tank, I can't cope with the stress....I've got friends who keep filthy grotty tanks, never do any maintenance and top up with untreated tap water, and they never have any trouble! I've spent a fortune on kit, researched for days on end, bought books, spend my days fretting about them and carefully measuring out water changes, and its still not good enough!

I was not destined to keep fish. Sorry guppies.

 

[WILDER]

The more you learn the happy the fish will be.
Fish keeping isn't easy, it gets better once you know what you are doing.
it can be a stressful hobby.

Put the fish in a container at the top of the tank. Something like a tupperware box, or clean ice cream box.

Peform a water change.
Also improve the fish diet with some frozen foods and veg.

 

[Susie72]

Ah.....now a clean box in the top of the tank I can do!! Thanks for that tip.

Once I isolate him, is there anything else I can do for him? I have some Melafix and tonic salts, but nothing else in the way of medication.

I have given them peas in the past, but they weren't that interested. They like the bloodworms but take forever to eat them, I worry about the waste levels. Anything else maybe?

ETA....I've had a quick clean of the gravel (without getting too carried away and stirring up too much) and performed a 50% water change, but I think its too late....he's crept away to hide under the half log and is just laying there.

So....of the maintenance and management I perform, where am I going wrong? The water and the filter do not smell of anything; the tank is reasonably clean (LFS said to stop vigorously cleaning it every week and changing 50% of water as I was, as I may be causing spikes or mini-cycles); I now change 10% water every 10 days or so; I clean out excess algae; and I don't overfeed.

What do I need to change?

 

[Paradise3]

Ah must've been speed reading again.
Didn't notice that the tank size was in the OP.
Wilder's right though, 23 litres isn't really ideal for guppies because of the activeness they have. My guppies are kept in very low numbers in a 12 gallon.

Alessa x.

 

[Susie72]

So maybe if I switch to something else, I'll have more luck and won't be cruelly despatching guppies needlessly??

I liked the black skirt tetras, they were entertaining...just liked the prettier look of the guppies....

 

[WILDER]

Black skirt tetra need at least 15 gallons as there a meduim sized tetra.

If your tanks overstocked you need to maintain it more.
A gravel vac twice a week with 30% water changes. Smaller tanks are hard to keep good water quality. Especially when there overstocked. Bigger the better.

 

[FishStrings]

Guppies prefer an abnormally high PH in the water of 8.0+ A guppy in PH levels of 6.4-7.0 is just in major trouble.

 

[Bignose]

Guppies prefer an abnormally high PH in the water of 8.0+ A guppy in PH levels of 6.4-7.0 is just in major trouble.

Guppies are actually among the most tolerant of fish, and they can be fine in a wide range of pHs. Unless they are wild-caught, and there are very few that are, I suspect that they will be fine in a pH of 6.4-7.0.