Green Water

[lljdma06]

I really do, I mean it! About ready to dismantle both the 20g and the 8g. I've tried everything; blackouts, more CO2, more ferts, less light, you name it, I've tried it. When the blackout didn't work, I tried daily 50% water changes from reading a few posts. Then, of course, you read another post saying it doesn't work and that you shouldn't do it, but I'm sorry, I CANNOT stand the site of green water. I like to be clear at least once a day! Tried reducing my lighting, so the 8g, which unfortunately has 3WPG (I can't reduce the wattage, only one bulb), is only on for 8 hours a day, and the 20g is reduced to 1.4WPG for 12 with a burst of light for 4 hours making it 2.8WPG. I can easily make the 20g run on just 1.4WPG. Really don't want to resort to another blackout, since the first weakened my plants quite a bit, allowing a second bloom to emerge with greater force. My CO2 level in both tanks is at around 56ppm (pH 6.2, kh 3) early in the morning when I test before the lights go on. I've yet to test when the lights have been on the whole day today, but in a past test at that time, it tested at 35ppm, which is still good, especially despite the water changes. Just to be sure, I'll test again tonight. I change my CO2 mix twice a week, which is a DIY Nutrafin canister with 1/2cup sugar and 1/2 tsp of yeast. My nitrates test at 5ppm, which I know is too low, but everytime I try to dose nitrates, the cloudiness gets so MUCH worse! I use Seachem Nitrogen, Flourish, Potassium, etc... the whole line of Seachem liquid ferts. I'm too afraid to dose Phospates right now, as I don't have a test and don't want to cause trouble with another type of algae. I suspect I have phospates in my tapwater. I haven't been able to dose Iron either and I can already see the yellowing associated with that on some of the leaves of my barclaya, so I may dose. I dose what I can after each water change, so I replace the nutrients that I take out, which could be a problem.

I'm not sure how to approach tackling this issue. I need to have the tanks stable by the time I leave for a cruise on the 9th of September. I've been researching and have come across an interesting solution involving willow branches, but I haven't come across any live willow branches that I'd like to put in my tank. I was contemplating, along the same principles, that there are some house plants that grow well with stems emersed in the water. Pothos is one and a plant that I have countless quantities of, untouched by any fertilisers or insect repelents other than tank water. I could place a few stems in there, or, I could invest in a few bunches of anacharis. Any suggestions?

I can't stand the unsightliness of these tanks, especially since I've worked so hard to get the scape just right and though my arms are looking fantastic because of the daily bucket lugging in order to carry out the daily 50%+ water changes, I'm really getting sick of doing daily water changes and I'll be much happier once I can revert back to my normal weekly schedule. The fish, despite all the tweaking and crap, are doing extremely well, even breeding. Oh, and I feed my fish once every two days or so, so it's not overfeeding fish, in case you thought it might be that.

I've heard that UV sterilizers and diatom filters work, but you know, they are pretty expensive, and I'd much rather deal with the root of the problem then have a quick fix. And please, no blackouts, been there done that, and I really think that was what brought about the second bloom.

Thanks for reading my lengthy post and I am so sorry to trouble you with my problems. But I know I can turn to you, if not for help, then at least for some much needed sympathy and a pat on the back.

(Runs off to buy some ugly anacharis in a last ditch effort to kill the algae with algae busters)

llj Again thanks, you are great people.

 

[ChrisP]

Sorry I have not read through your post as it was too lengthy and I dont have the time right now but I hear a willow branch inserted into the water for a few days works wonders at combatting Green Water.

 

[lljdma06]

Sorry I have not read through your post as it was too lengthy and I dont have the time right now but I hear a willow branch inserted into the water for a few days works wonders at combatting Green Water.

Thanks for your reply, ChrisP, but willow trees do not grow near where I live, and the ones that do are in private property. That is why I considered the possibility of adding pothos instead. The plan is to just do a complete overhaul of the two tanks anyway, give a good scrub, and load the tank with some ugly weeds (anacharis) for a while. I may add an additional CO2 canister to each tank, weaken the mixes slightly, and then alternate changing them, so the levels stay stable.

I just tested my nitrates out of my tap and I got a whopping 20ppm, so maybe I'm adding too much stuff now. I will try and dig around to see if I have a phosphate test lying around so I can test my tap for phosphate. This is all well and good, but there are some here that say you can't have an excess of nutrients that all algae issues boil down to inadaquate CO2. I don't know, however, how can I still have my problems if I'm running 56ppm of CO2? It's really odd.

Keep the replies coming!

llj

 

[leafs]

I've just recovered from a very bad case of green water, but it's finally cleared up. It took close to a month to clear. All I did was reduce my lighting duration from 12 hours to 6 hours a day until the water started to clear up. I'm not sure if reducing the light duration solved the problem, but thankfully it cleared up. It can be frustrating, but patience is important . I hope you can get a handle on it.

 

[voo]

How green is the green water?

One thing i see you havent tried is daphnia... have you considered trying this? They eat the algae floating in the water, but you'll need to keep them in a net else the fish will eat them.

 

[Jen]

Ll... I'm sorry to hear you haven't been able to beat this. I'm going to go back in my journal on here and see what I did to beat mine... I'm pretty sure it's what I told you in the pm's we exchanged, but just to be sure. I think that when I did the 50% water changes, I did them for a good 3 weeks with the light reduced. But I'll go check right now.

Alright. Have a look at my old journal... and the following 4 or 5 deal with my nasty nasty green water.

Hope that helps

 

[lljdma06]

Thanks Jen, I looked it up and actually, your journal was one of the first things I read when I did a "Green water" search at TFF, and it helped. I can reduce the light in the 20g no problem, but the 8g will present problems. It only has the one, 24W fixture. I can try to reduce the photo period if that will have a similar effect. Someone suggested 6 hours a few posts back. The tanks need an overhaul anyway, and I'll take the Green water as an opportunity to perform a good clean and replant some things. The glosso needs to be thinned. Keep your fingers crossed that I wont have to completely dismantle, though I practically am anyway.

My anacharis run was unsuccessful. The plant lamp busted at the local Petsmart and the anacharis was a sorry mess. I managed to get one pretty ok plant, but had to settle for cabomba carolina, which looked much better. The 8g is worse, so I'll start with that one and add the extra plants to that tank.

I have actually considered daphnia, but it's too expensive to ship a culture at this time, and my fish are pretty tenacious, the daphnia will be eaten.

Again thanks.

 

[Jen]

I wouldnt be so quick to tear everything down yet. It would be wise to figure out what the problem is before you start all over again and get it back. I would cut back the lights is you can. Actual wattage or photoperiod and continue with the water changes... if 50% is to much, go for 25 or 30. Enough to get some of the green out of the water without leaving time for the algae to re-populate itself. If water changes and reduced light help it go away, then I would think you lights are too bright in comparison to the nutrients and co2 in your tank.

You said you think you have phosphates in your tap water? I would test that. I think you are supposed to dose phosphates and nitrates in a 1:10 ratio... so if you are adding 20ppm of nitrates, and your tap water has 4ppm phosphates, then you have an excess of 2ppm phosphates that the algea will snatch up. I would find yourself a test kit and check that out.

From the looks of it too, I would think you have too much co2 in the tank. I shoot for 38mg/l in my tank, and that is a bit on the high side. Check out this chart. Are you pressurized, or DIY? Maybe try taking out a bit of yeast to lower it and see if that does anything.

I would try each of these things seperatly to figure out exactly which is causing the problem. If you cut the lights, do water changes, and lower the co2 at the same time I suspect you will see it start to clear up, but it will be harder to know which is the culpret.

 

[Themuleous]

Llj mate, this is crap I know the exact feeling with struggling with algae (stares at the mess in his nano). Have you considered doing less? These are still very young tanks, no? And probably just need time to settle. Keep NO3 at 20ppm ish and PO4 at 2ppm ish and just ride it out? Just a thought.

Sam

 

[pseud]

I agree with Themulous.

Also ,I've found that I can successfully stimulate a case of Green Water by either a) changing too much filter media at the same time and/or B) stirring up the substrate too much. The latter disturbs the bacteria and also disturbs some of the mulm which puts ammonia into the water.

By the time you come to notice the greenwater, it's already been kick started into effect, an ammonia test comes up as 0 because it's either an unreadable amount, or it's already been converted into nitrates and you're left puzzling what the hell happened.

 

[paulioo]

I too suffered from green water for a while in my old planted tank. Like you i tried everything, blackouts, reduced lighting etc.

The only solution that cured me of it was a UV steriliser. Within 24 hours it was completely gone and never returned.

Try to pick one up on ebay, then resell it again.

Paul

 

[lljdma06]

I tested my tapwater and I have 2ppm Phosphate, so I really shouldn't be dosing either nitrates or phosphates since it's already present in my tapwater. Unfortunately, for a time, I was following EI and my tapwater didn't have nitrates or phosphates when I had last tested it in the Winter and I had been dosing both nutrients pretty regularly for these tanks. What this means is that I have to be more vigilant about what's in my tapwater, as it seems to change once in a while. Odd, I know, but perhaps that may be the case. I added the extra plants and today, I notice an improvement in the 8g. I will follow suit with the 20g and just add tons of stem plants and perhaps they will consume the excess nutrients, especially with the reduced lighting.

The CO2 issue has me stumped, Jen. There are some people who believe that the root of all algae issues is inadaquate CO2 levels. Yet, I ask these people to come forward and explain the constant state of green water in my aquarium despite my high levels of CO2? I'm going to try the idea of two canisters, but with much weaker mixes, so I can achieve a stable level of CO2. I suspect that my current levels must jump around quite a bit, especially on days where I change the mix. With two canisters connected via t-connector, I can alternate the mixes so that the level remains more constant. I will shoot for 35-40ppm, which is less that what I have now. I truely believe that you are right, Jen, the issue is the CO2, because I haven't noticed one thing that I used to notice with the lower levels of the CO2 I used to put in the tanks. The plants are not pearling. They used to pearl quite a bit, and now that's not happening.

I have some extra time on my hands and I think I will use the opportunity to rescape and plant additional stemplants. I like the look of the cabomba carolina and I think it'll do well in both the light of the nano and the 20g. The good thing is that I don't really have any plants that wouldn't do well in the 20g if I decided to redo it and go for a lower-maintenance system. The pennywort and the alternantera are my most demanding plants of the 20g, but they seem to be growing well with 1.4WPG and CO2 injection. If I notice issues, I'll reconsider the 3 hour burst of light during the middle of the photo period and then reduce the total photo period in the 20g.

The 8g really needs the light. I have pretty fancy myriophyllum, zosterfolia, glosso carpet, and rotala. I will, however, reduce the photo-period to about 8 hours.

I'm not giving up and I'm not stripping the tanks all the way. I'm going to keep the filters running in a bucket to preserve the beneficial bacteria, but I will take out the hardscape, plants, and give everything a good scrub. I will also consider upgrading the 8g's filter to the one I used in my 10g in IL, and bringing the 8g filter to the 20g as a supplement. I think the extra filtration may help. I agree that the various factors need to be explored individually, but with a cruise looming in a month I really need to be able to leave the tanks for a week unattended, and that requires a relatively quick fix, so I will be eliminating all the factors at once and I'll mull over the cause later.

I seriously considered a UV sterilizer or a diatom filter Paulioo, but I really can't afford one at this time. I'd like to try the "cheap" solution first. If, however, the green water returns, I'll probably end up buying one. I certainly hope it doesn't.

Sorry, again for the lengthy post and I really truely appreciate everybody who has contributed advice and "pats on the back" during this ordeal. You are great!

Lessons learned so far:

1. Test your tapwater regularly
2. Plant lots and lots and lots and lots of ugly stemplants. For three months, your tank can look like a jungle
3. Less is sometimes more
4. Test your tapwater regularly

llj

 

[lljdma06]

Lessons learned so far:

1. Test your tapwater regularly
2. Plant lots and lots and lots and lots of ugly stemplants. For three months, your tank can look like a jungle
3. Less is sometimes more
4. Test your tapwater regularly

Add to that:

5. Even if you have a Northern facing window, your tank could still be getting sunlight.

Well, actually more North by Northwest. I garden, so as I was watering my phalenopsis and other plants while I was doing the overhaul (By the way, plants absolutely relish dirty tank water, it's a little weaker than your commercial-based fertilisers and contains none of the harsh, burning chemicals, but I digress), I noticed that throughout the day the 8g is hit by the weak sunlight or evening beams, and the 20g gets beams of direct late afternoon/evening sun on its right side. But I covered that side, remember? Not the top of the tank, which has a glass hood. Sneaky sunlight.

I did the overhauls in each tank and I do see a slight improvement. Can't say I liike the scapes much, but who cares, I'll keep them ugly for 3-4 months then rescape when things are stable. I left plenty of space for more plants, which I'll go get today. The moss-covered wood in the 20g was in a particularly sorry state, covered in some wierd stuff, so I removed the moss and reattached it to new wood. I will toss the wood, it's that bad! FKNM, I have like tons of moss, I don't kill it anymore. Today, however, I will move the 8g to a part of my room which doesn't get any sunlight, and extend the paper shading in the 20g a few inches past the tank rim, to block additional sunlight.

Warmest,

llj