Hi - I've got a couple of year-old three-spot gouramis along with a selection of other fish, all of which seem to get along just fine. However over the last couple of days, one of them has taking to swimming tail down and hiding in the plants. Can anybody help/advise me on what is happening here? I'm a relative novice having only had my tank for just over a year...
Gourami Swimming "tail Heavy"
- Thread starter timfromMK
- Start date
calum
New Member
it could be that you have a bully in the tank i would watch them 4 abit and see whats happening.or it could be a infection of some kind
Miss Dib Dabs
Loony.
What other fish do you have in there and what sex are all the gouramies?
Not come across any of mine swimming tail down so not sure what the cause could be. Is he able to correct it at all and can he reach the surface ok?
P.
Not come across any of mine swimming tail down so not sure what the cause could be.
Is he able to correct it at all and can he reach the surface ok?P.
No bullies that I know of, everything's OK in that department. As for sex, I'm sorry to admit, I don't know but both fish are identical in size, colour and features.... The fish is able to reach the surface and seems to feed OK, too and has no other visible signs of illness or injury.
Once again, we need more information. Most importantly, what size tank do you have, what are the water parameters and what other fish are in there (and how many of each)?
Fish swimming head down are usualy stressed due to environmental factors (eg: high ammonia levels). It is unusual, however, for a fish to swim 'tail-down'. My guess would be that the fish has been injured or has an external infection but either of these things should be visible. Do you think you could get a picture of the fish?
How long have you had this fish and the other gourami? I know you said they are a year old - but do you mean you've had them this long?
About sex - this is realy important with this species because mature males will fight to the death and male/female pairs rarely work out because the male will bully and harass the female - often to death. What you are seeing could possibly be the result of a fight. Males have a longer and more pointed dorsal fin than females. They also appear more 'streamlined' than the deeper-bodied females and, when viewed from above, females are wider.
Assuming you have the typical 'blue' color morph of this species, this is what a mature male looks like:
http/aexchange.addr.com/gourami.jpg (sorry the quality is not great but this is one of the best pics of the dorsal I could find)
And here's a female:
http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/other/Tricho.JPG
Fish swimming head down are usualy stressed due to environmental factors (eg: high ammonia levels). It is unusual, however, for a fish to swim 'tail-down'. My guess would be that the fish has been injured or has an external infection but either of these things should be visible. Do you think you could get a picture of the fish?
How long have you had this fish and the other gourami? I know you said they are a year old - but do you mean you've had them this long?
About sex - this is realy important with this species because mature males will fight to the death and male/female pairs rarely work out because the male will bully and harass the female - often to death. What you are seeing could possibly be the result of a fight. Males have a longer and more pointed dorsal fin than females. They also appear more 'streamlined' than the deeper-bodied females and, when viewed from above, females are wider.
Assuming you have the typical 'blue' color morph of this species, this is what a mature male looks like:
http
/aexchange.addr.com/gourami.jpg (sorry the quality is not great but this is one of the best pics of the dorsal I could find)And here's a female:
http
/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/other/Tricho.JPG
Majjie
Fishaholic
I have been having touble with aggression between gouramis, which Sylvia has been helping me with:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=144013
I have temporarily taken both pearl gouramis, Malc and Min, out of the tank which was quite heavily planted and Malc was hiding behind the bog wood most of the time. He's now in a little 40litre tank with the female platys and I've noticed that he swims tail down most of the time. He's painfully thin - worse than I thought because he looks good from the side - but he's more visible in the smaller tank. I wondered whether the droopy swimming was due to muscle wastage or something. He always did eat before - but maybe not enough. (I'm literally tipping food into him at the moment and he's lapping it up).
Too soon to say whether feeding him up will correct the swimming - and the cause in your case might be something completely different - but just thought I'd mention it.
http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=144013I have temporarily taken both pearl gouramis, Malc and Min, out of the tank which was quite heavily planted and Malc was hiding behind the bog wood most of the time. He's now in a little 40litre tank with the female platys and I've noticed that he swims tail down most of the time. He's painfully thin - worse than I thought because he looks good from the side - but he's more visible in the smaller tank. I wondered whether the droopy swimming was due to muscle wastage or something. He always did eat before - but maybe not enough. (I'm literally tipping food into him at the moment and he's lapping it up).
Too soon to say whether feeding him up will correct the swimming - and the cause in your case might be something completely different - but just thought I'd mention it.
Okay here we go (sorry for the delay, I've been to Germany).
Tank is 210 litres, water parameters are the same as always and are well below the maximum tolerance levels stated on the test kit.
We have:
Mollys - 5 (including a new born)
Silver Shark - 3
Plecos - 2
Neons - 8
Swordtail - 2
Three-spot Gourami - 2
Sunset Gourami - 2
Striped Gourami - 1
From the links you sent, I have been able to identify the three-spots as two females.
Hope this helps
Tim
Tank is 210 litres, water parameters are the same as always and are well below the maximum tolerance levels stated on the test kit.
We have:
Mollys - 5 (including a new born)
Silver Shark - 3
Plecos - 2
Neons - 8
Swordtail - 2
Three-spot Gourami - 2
Sunset Gourami - 2
Striped Gourami - 1
From the links you sent, I have been able to identify the three-spots as two females.
Hope this helps
Tim
You've been in Germany? Hope you ahd a nice time 
Wish I could go on holiday lol
210 litres is about 50 gallons - not large enough for any silver sharks. In fact, if the shark is stressed, it may be swimming along the tank very rapidly continuously and this would also stress all the rest of the fish out. Silver/bala sharks are schooling fish, they grow very large and, in a small tank, become very nervous. It's good that you do have them in a group but these fish still need 125 gallons minnimum. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've been lectured like this but it is realy important that you realise that the silver sharks' distress will have consequences on the rest of the fish as well. I am hoping that the 3 you have are still small and that you are either going to move them to a larger tank ASAP or you will return them to your LFS. BTW, when those sharks are nearer to 12", the neons will almost deffinately get eaten.
If the gourami has injuries, they are either due to the sharks (if they are relatively large - and they aren't aggressive fish so it won't have been done 'on purpose' so to speak) or the other gourami. The fact that you have two females is lucky though as it means they may be ok together indeffinately. I imagine the sunset (dwarf) and banded gouramies are relatively peaceful towards your three-spots - if anything I imagine the three-spots are aggressive towards them?
You say your tank's water parameters are 'well below the acceptable level'. Just to clarify, the acceptable level is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrIte and nitrAtes under 40ppm, prefferably under 20ppm. I don't know what the test kit says but if you have anything above this, do some partial water changes with de-chlorinated water because it may be stressing your fish out and making them prone to illness.
I won't pretend to know what's causing this I haven't a clue. I'm just trying to establish any possible role various factors played in this. Is the gourami still swimming like that now you've come back? Based on what Majjie said, is your gourami eating well? Does she look 'lethargic' or like she's 'wasting away'? If so, the problem could also be an internal bacterial infection (lack of appetite, when there's no competition from more aggressive fish, is almost always a result of this, if seen in gouramies). A lot fo the fish you have (sharks, other gouramies) could be competing with her for food though and leaving her hungry - make shure that's notthe case and try feeding some sinking foods alongside some flake to distract half the fish and give thios gourami a chance to demonstrate whether or not she eats enough
Wish I could go on holiday lol210 litres is about 50 gallons - not large enough for any silver sharks. In fact, if the shark is stressed, it may be swimming along the tank very rapidly continuously and this would also stress all the rest of the fish out. Silver/bala sharks are schooling fish, they grow very large and, in a small tank, become very nervous. It's good that you do have them in a group but these fish still need 125 gallons minnimum. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've been lectured like this but it is realy important that you realise that the silver sharks' distress will have consequences on the rest of the fish as well. I am hoping that the 3 you have are still small and that you are either going to move them to a larger tank ASAP or you will return them to your LFS. BTW, when those sharks are nearer to 12", the neons will almost deffinately get eaten.
If the gourami has injuries, they are either due to the sharks (if they are relatively large - and they aren't aggressive fish so it won't have been done 'on purpose' so to speak) or the other gourami. The fact that you have two females is lucky though as it means they may be ok together indeffinately. I imagine the sunset (dwarf) and banded gouramies are relatively peaceful towards your three-spots - if anything I imagine the three-spots are aggressive towards them?
You say your tank's water parameters are 'well below the acceptable level'. Just to clarify, the acceptable level is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrIte and nitrAtes under 40ppm, prefferably under 20ppm. I don't know what the test kit says but if you have anything above this, do some partial water changes with de-chlorinated water because it may be stressing your fish out and making them prone to illness.
I won't pretend to know what's causing this
I haven't a clue. I'm just trying to establish any possible role various factors played in this. Is the gourami still swimming like that now you've come back? Based on what Majjie said, is your gourami eating well? Does she look 'lethargic' or like she's 'wasting away'? If so, the problem could also be an internal bacterial infection (lack of appetite, when there's no competition from more aggressive fish, is almost always a result of this, if seen in gouramies). A lot fo the fish you have (sharks, other gouramies) could be competing with her for food though and leaving her hungry - make shure that's notthe case and try feeding some sinking foods alongside some flake to distract half the fish and give thios gourami a chance to demonstrate whether or not she eats enough It was a work trip, unluckily.
No, this is the first time anyone has said that the tank is too small for silver sharks. We bought them originally just after we set the tank up from the same supplier (Maidenhead Aquatics in Milton Keynes) and this was not mentioned. The sharks are about 10cm long at present, but really haven't got much bigger since we bought them. However they do seem quite calm and rarely dash about the tank in the manner you describe.
There are no visble injuries on the gourami in question, and yes, all the other types of gourami in the tank are very docile with her, inculding her tank-mate, who seems just as puzzled with her behaviour. She is eating well - we have been watching her to ensure that she is eating as yes, there appear to be no problems there either. She is about the same size as her tank-mate too.
The water readings are as follows:
Nitrites - 0ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrates - 10ppm
pH - 8.1
Temperature - 75F
As you say, it's a bit of a mystery....
No, this is the first time anyone has said that the tank is too small for silver sharks. We bought them originally just after we set the tank up from the same supplier (Maidenhead Aquatics in Milton Keynes) and this was not mentioned. The sharks are about 10cm long at present, but really haven't got much bigger since we bought them. However they do seem quite calm and rarely dash about the tank in the manner you describe.
There are no visble injuries on the gourami in question, and yes, all the other types of gourami in the tank are very docile with her, inculding her tank-mate, who seems just as puzzled with her behaviour. She is eating well - we have been watching her to ensure that she is eating as yes, there appear to be no problems there either. She is about the same size as her tank-mate too.
The water readings are as follows:
Nitrites - 0ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrates - 10ppm
pH - 8.1
Temperature - 75F
As you say, it's a bit of a mystery....
I'm sorry I can't realy be of any more help - she sounds like she's absolutely fine if you ignore the tail 
About the silver sharks - they are still juveniles at 10cm. There's some info. about them in our own fish index: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=123786 Note that, while it says 13" is the maximum here, and while that is the most common size, a few have been recorded at 18"!
About the silver sharks - they are still juveniles at 10cm. There's some info. about them in our own fish index: http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=123786 Note that, while it says 13" is the maximum here, and while that is the most common size, a few have been recorded at 18"!Thank you, Sylvia for all that you been able to comment on. Your help has been appreciated! My wife says if the sharks grow to 18", she'll look forward to seeing them on the BBQ ;-) No seriously, we'll find them a new home in a few weeks and perhaps get some different gourami.
Cheers
Cheers
Seperate them or get youself another 2 females. This is typical three-spot behaviour. Even with 2 females (as females are less aggressive than males) the dominant fish will tend to harass the other. The problem becomes pronounced only if the tank is too small. Having several reduces the problem only because the aggression from the 'dominant' fish is spread out between several individuals so no single fish is targeted. Note that it's important not to just introduce one new fish as that new fish will find itself actively being bullied and harassed - possibly even killed - because it'll eb viewed as an 'intruder' by both existing fish. Also, make sure the new gouramies are about the same size as the ones you already have and don't try to add a different species - stick with three-spots (Trichogaster trichopterus). the color morph doesn't matter - so blue, gold, cosby, opaline, platinum or lavender are all fine. BTW, 4 three-spots will require a 40 gallon minnimum - how large is your tank? If it's anything smaller than 30 gallons, you'll just have to find one of the two three-spots you currently own a new home (or return her to your LFS) ASAP.
I got a 20 gallon. The fighting happens much less now, it was mostly when they were first intorduced to the aquarium. Now one chases the other away only if the other one catches a piec of food that they were both going for. But what i also realized is that they will never ever fight when the lights are off. Whats the reason for this, is it because they cant see eachother?
Fish tend to calm down when the lights are off - it seems that they just 'switch off' However, I expect this doesn't actualy last for as long as you might think afterwards - it's just how they respond initialy. BTW, gouramies in their natural habitat are often found in swampy or 'muddy' areas with poor visibility - they don't use their eyes quite as much as might be expected considering their vibrant colors and the flaring and color changing they do when breeding/fighting. That's one reason they have those modified ventral fins - the long thread-like 'feelers' which they use to feel and taste objects. And don't forget that fish can sense movement (and therefore sound) through their lateral line.
However, I expect this doesn't actualy last for as long as you might think afterwards - it's just how they respond initialy. BTW, gouramies in their natural habitat are often found in swampy or 'muddy' areas with poor visibility - they don't use their eyes quite as much as might be expected considering their vibrant colors and the flaring and color changing they do when breeding/fighting. That's one reason they have those modified ventral fins - the long thread-like 'feelers' which they use to feel and taste objects. And don't forget that fish can sense movement (and therefore sound) through their lateral line.Similar threads
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