Golden Gourami Attacked Why?

[Nickelback]

Hi my other half owns two Golden Gouramis and they have been here with us for six months or longer and were doing so well and are so beautiful.The problem is tonight we noticed one of the gouramis spinning wildly around in circles like a dog chasing it's tail and it was just violently throwing itself about and sunk to the bottom and kept thrashing itself on the rocks.I have never seen anything like it and I said to the other half mabye it is having a heart attack It really was very distressed.We had a good look and noticed on it's side there is a big white round circle and we have notice the sucking catfish in the tank now it's bigger it keeps chasing the gouramis and we believe it is the cause as it trys to suck on there sides. We have tonight taken them out of the tank and put them in another four foot tank with peaceful fish like Silver Dollars etc.Well the gourami seems very down in the dumps but is alive and I'm wondering will her/his side heal and will she get better.

 

[fish_fetish65]

does the circle appear to be fuzzy at all? or have any texture to it? if so, it could be a fungal issue.

 

[Nickelback]

Hi my other half owns two Golden Gouramis and they have been here with us for six months or longer and were doing so well and are so beautiful.The problem is tonight we noticed one of the gouramis spinning wildly around in circles like a dog chasing it's tail and it was just violently throwing itself about and sunk to the bottom and kept thrashing itself on the rocks.I have never seen anything like it and I said to the other half mabye it is having a heart attack It really was very distressed.We had a good look and noticed on it's side there is a big white round circle and we have notice the sucking catfish in the tank now it's bigger it keeps chasing the gouramis and we believe it is the cause as it trys to suck on there sides. We have tonight taken them out of the tank and put them in another four foot tank with peaceful fish like Silver Dollars etc.Well the gourami seems very down in the dumps but is alive and I'm wondering will her/his side heal and will she get better.

Also Is there anything I can do to ease here pain any treatment etc.Thank you.

 

[fish_fetish65]

any chance you could get us a picture?

i think we ought to figure out for certain what it is before starting treatment. the only thing i can reccommend at the moment is putting a little more stress coat in the tank.

 

[Nickelback]

Hi my other half owns two Golden Gouramis and they have been here with us for six months or longer and were doing so well and are so beautiful.The problem is tonight we noticed one of the gouramis spinning wildly around in circles like a dog chasing it's tail and it was just violently throwing itself about and sunk to the bottom and kept thrashing itself on the rocks.I have never seen anything like it and I said to the other half mabye it is having a heart attack It really was very distressed.We had a good look and noticed on it's side there is a big white round circle and we have notice the sucking catfish in the tank now it's bigger it keeps chasing the gouramis and we believe it is the cause as it trys to suck on there sides. We have tonight taken them out of the tank and put them in another four foot tank with peaceful fish like Silver Dollars etc.Well the gourami seems very down in the dumps but is alive and I'm wondering will her/his side heal and will she get better.

Also Is there anything I can do to ease here pain any treatment etc.Thank you.

Hi thanks for your reply Well the reply I added was before I read your reply that's why it didn't seem to fit with your reply Well the white round circle on her side is surrounded by a red circle which shows shes been attacked the bloods coming through It is really upsetting when she has the fits but alot of the time she seems ok.Ithink she is in alot of pain though as it reminds me of a blister What should I do


Hi again I've replied before you again Well sorry I don't have a digital camera to take photo sorry

 

[Silverlady]

Hi, could she have burnt herself on your heater,has it got a guard on.

 

[sylvia]

Does it look anything like these?
http/203.116.88.76/content/phase1/Custom.../20(ulcer2).jpg
http/www.therealmckoi.co.uk/Fish%20showing%20ulcer.jpg
http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/ulcers.htm

I'm not persuaded the plec's the problem and I'd find it difficult to believe the gourami burned itself so severely (though it's possible). It would seem more likely that it has contracted a disease indeirectly as a result of being stressed or has an infected injury. Considering it's with one more gourami (they shouldn't realy be kept in pairs) and you say the plec chases them around, it wouldn't be surprising if it's stressed or has been bullied/attacked.

You keep reffering to the fish as a 'she' but it's unclear in your first post whether you know the sex or not. This is important as male/female pairs rarely work out long term as the females tend to be bullied. If this is the case, the problem may well have come up due to bullying and could simply be a secondary fungal infection.

To sex them both, males have a more pointed and longer dorsal fin than females who have shorter, rounded dorsals. Males also appear skinnier, more streamlined and are over-all larger. When viewed from above, females look fatter/wider; from the side females are deeper-bodied.

 

[Nickelback]

Thanks everybody for the great replies I put stress coat in the tank and so far no good has come of it yet.It could be early though.The heater doesn't have a guard so yes that's a possibility too.Well thanks sylvia too for the links you provided with the pictures.I have looked at the three links and what she has looks nothing like the three links.The sucking catfish is a real bully but he is not a plec.He could have caused some major problems like you say(sylvia)and caused stress and mabye it is not just a wound but an infection so I'm still unsure.I'm not sure of her sex I just say her(silly of me) but the two have been so good together all the time and just sit together and have never chased or bullied each other.Well I'm desperate to find the right treatment as she is getting worse now appearance wise as her face is going all red which I'm assuming is from where she has her fits but I'm not sure.Like you have said sylvia it could be an infection caused from stress.She has fits probably once every three hours roughly and actually jumped out of the tank the other day when we had the lid off for two seconds.She is very stressed but I won't put her out of her misery yet as there must be a treatment for her and in weeks she could be fine and live a long and happy life.I wish I could show a picture but unfortunately I don't have the equipment. Well if anyone has any ideas on what I should do from here that would be so good for my poor gourami

 

[sylvia]

If she's getting worse, try treating her with an antibiotic (something that says it treats internal bacterial infections will do). If you're in the US, maracyn apparently works on this. Spasms as you describe are characteristic of a flavobacterium infection and sores can also be caused by this.

What are your water parameters like? (ie: ammonia, ntirite, nitrate). Get a test kit immediately if you don't have one already! Even she's getting worse due to secondary ifnections, the antibiotic should help.

Also, what's the temp. of your tank? Make shure it isn't too high - lower it to about 77 deg F (very gradualy).

I mentioned how you sex these fish in my previous post but here are some picture examples:
http/www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Gouram104.jpg - female (ignore coloration - this species comes in many color morphs and this particular female is in breeding condition and very bright)
http/www.painetworks.com/photos/ht/ht2945.JPG - male (again, the color is irrelevant)

Last thing - what kind of algae eating catfish do you have exactly...? If it's not a plec, I'm guessing it's not even a catfish. Perhaps it's one of these: http/www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/dbimag...moneri_3(1).jpg
or http/www.azgardens.com/images/Gold-Algae-Eater.gif
Re-home it if you do - they grow large, eat smaller fish, become increasingly aggressive and stop eating algae as they mature and they are known for sucking on the slime coats and eyes of other fish. Fish that are shaped like gouramies or angels are especialy at risk from these fish.

If you are certain it's a catfish, it'll probably have an adipose fin: http/web.uvic.ca/~reimlab/nikki/salmon.GIF Whereas the sucking 'loaches' mentioned above do not.
For example, this pleco catfish has an adipose: http/www.aquavisiontech.com/images/plecostomus_albino.jpg
As does this beautiful zebra plec here: http/www.wharfaquatics.co.uk/images/zebra_plec.jpg (these don't eat algae mind you)
and this pretty baby panaque: http/nscontact.com/Images/Produits/G/327_1.jpg
You get the idea...

You can probably find what it is here: http/planetcatfish.com/ But you'll have to look around a bit

 

[Nickelback]

EXCELLENT that is great news sylvia I can get some antibiotic tommorrow and start to get something happening to make her better.Your information is priceless The amonia nitrate,nitrite and ph are excellent in the tank as there is hardley any fish in the new tank she is now in which helps.The tank is 27 degrees celsius I'm in Australia.Judging by your pictures on how to sex them it is quite clear to me now they are both females.This reply of your is so informative and excellent information it has helped me so much The sucking catfish I keep mentioning is DEFINITELY exactly the same coulour and everything as the first link the brown one and yes he has got some size on him now although not huge huge if you know what I mean.In Australia for some reason they are known as a sucking catfish but the pet stroe may have wrongly named them Well the little bugger is going to have to be housed somewhere else then.Well he's in the other halfs tank but in my tank(aren't we silly we have our own tanks each) I have cichlids baby ones with a baby one do you think he will be a problem later and suck their eyes out.That sounds so awful doesn't it Well thank you sylvia I think your email has just set everything straight for me Cheers

 

[Nickelback]

Oh I forgot to ask can I treat her in the tank with the few other fish in there Silver Dollars etc.I don't really have a spare tank unless I set up a two foot one and beacause I would be only setting it up it would have no bacteria etc.Also in the tank is guppies and their tiny little babies which I'm guessing would die with the treatment so I would have to put them in the tank with the bigger baby guppies we have housed seperately wouldn't I.Well also if anyone is reading this the reason we don't take the guppies away from their parents who eat them because we have just hundreds of guppies coming through they won't stop breeding and even in the tank with their parents heaps make it believe it or not

 

[sylvia]

You can treat her in the tank with the other fish but you need to watch your water parameters very carefuly because antibiotics can sometimes mess with your biological filtration and cause nitrite or ammonia spikes (just monitor things with a test kit and do water changes as necessary).

The guppy fry may actualy survive the treatment but, if you can move them eslewhere and you want to keep as many as possible, do so anyway. Alternatively, just leave them in the tank while you treat and take your chances - I know exactly what you mean about having millions of the things (however cute they are)

What kind of cichlids do you own? Some can manage with a sucking 'loach', others may be attacked.

BTW, the reason I tend to put the word 'loach' in inverted commas is that the 'sucking loach' isn't a loach but, in fact, is more closely related to things like barbs and danios (cyprinids). I've seen them labelled all sorts of things - chinese sucking loach, chinese algae eater, sucking loach, gold algae eater, indian algae eater, albino algae eater, gold loach, gold sucking loach, gold suckerfish, just plain 'algae eater' and so on... Realy, they aren't loaches, don't eat algae once they get passed a certain stage, are not realy indian or chinese and are certainly not catfish I wouldn't be surprised if your LFS simply mis-labelled them

 

[Nickelback]

No worries. Sounds like you have a guppy plague too Well the cichlids I have are 1xChocolate,1xTexas,1xJack Dempsey,1xSalvini,1xFiremouth and 1xBlue Acara with 2xConvicts and also in the tank are 2 x Bristlenose.Well thanks for all your info too it is much appreciated

 

[sylvia]

Yep, the 'loach' should be fine with those - though make shure it has plenty of places to hide when you first add it or it may itself be attacked.

 

[Nickelback]

Thanks for that Sylvia.There is bad news with the Golden Gourami she died last night Very upsetting to see her go but glad she is out of her suffering It has been a learning experience and I'm thankful for the help on the topic Now that I know what to do the next fish that the same thing happens to will be better off.Sad that such a beautiful fish had to go we loved her but least she is in peace.Well cheers and many thanks from steph.