Gh & Kh Question

[Alexp08]

My GH is roughly 22
My KH is 4.
The fish store guy told me i had very soft water.
I was under the impression that my water was very hard with low buffering capabilities. 
Who right? should i get soft water fish or hard water fish?
Also i added aquarium salt to this tank (not alot) but thats what my LFS told me to do, could that raise/lower these readings?

 

[noobgamers]

OK is the aquarium salt-water if not then the amount of salt you can add(you don't need it it just helps reduce risks of fungal or parasitical infections) should be under 1.001 don't know about gh and kh but since most aquarium fish in the hobby have been here for a long time they will withstand any hardness except ridiculously high e.g my water is very very hard e.g top range of African cichlids and i have kept neon tetra which in the wild live in water which has extremely little hardness with no ill affect what wrong hardness will do is make the fish harder to breed and harder to flourish which basically constitutes breeding and perfect colours ive never personally found the colours of my fish have ever been affected but i have never bred any fish in my tanks due to lack of room or spare tanks btw about salt the amount you cna add varys on the plants and fish youre keeping if youre keeping no plants with mollys you can have near marine salt levels 1.020 while if you have tetra too be safe i wouldnt go above 1.001 

 

[Byron]

My first question on the GH/KH would be, what made you think you had hard water?  The numbers from the fish store tests, are they ppm (= parts per million) or degrees?  I would assume ppm, as 22 dGH would be liquid rock, whereas 22 ppm is very soft (just slightly above 1 dGH).  The KH of 4 is low if ppm, less so if degrees.  Any idea what test kit they used?
 
Second, you should be able to confirm your tap water GH and KH with the municipal water supply people, who may have a website with reports posted.  Or you can call them.  Unless you are somehow targeting the GH and/or KH, the tank water should remain close to the tap with respect to GH  and KH.
 
While it is true that many fish can manage in different parameters, this has its limits.  Also, some fish must have moderate hardness, some not.  It is best to know what you have coming out of the tap and select fish that will manage, rather than considering water parameter adjustments which can be less than easy, depending.
 
As for the salt, this depends upon the fish.  Hard water fish manage better with salt than will soft water fish.  There is really no benefit at all with maintaining some level of salt as a preventive.  Using salt to treat a specific disease of issue is very different, but regular use of salt in a freshwater aquarium is not recommended.  There may be more to discuss here once we know specifics.
 
Byron.

 

[Alexp08]

They used an api test. They put 22 drops of solution in the water and nothing changed. And they were talking to me about getting a water pillow (why I thought I had hard water).
Also ive had people on other forums tell me its hard water.

 

[Byron]

They used an api test. They put 22 drops of solution in the water and nothing changed. And they were talking to me about getting a water pillow (why I thought I had hard water).
Also ive had people on other forums tell me its hard water.

Well, if the API test for GH got up to 22 drops, that is 22 dGH which is hard water.  I do not see how the employee could have taken that as very soft.
 
I assume the KH at 4 is also degrees, which is quite low by comparison; unusual but not impossible.  So you were correct in thinking the water is hard with low buffering capacity.  But I would definitely check both values with the water people, can't hurt and costs nothing.
 
Obviously your water is aimed at hard water fish like rift lake cichlids, livebearers, some of the rainbows, and a few others.  There are other fish among the barbs, danios, cichlids that would manage too.
 
If you do decide to soften it, be careful how you do.  Water softeners (such as one can install in the home) are not the answer as they replace hard mineral salts with common salt which is even worse.  Water pillows I have never used so can't offer anything.  The safest way to soften water is to dilute it with "pure" water but this can get expensive.
 
Byron.

 

[Alexp08]

Well im not trying to soften it, im trying to find fish that wipp be good with what I have. The issue is, I keep having fish die for no reason, mainly fancy guppies.
I was thinking of getting a few angelfish as they are cichlids.
I think one main thing im getting confused with is looking at a site and it says the fish llikes soft water with low KH. But I have hard water with low KH

 

[Byron]

Well im not trying to soften it, im trying to find fish that wipp be good with what I have. The issue is, I keep having fish die for no reason, mainly fancy guppies.
I was thinking of getting a few angelfish as they are cichlids.
I think one main thing im getting confused with is looking at a site and it says the fish llikes soft water with low KH. But I have hard water with low KH

May I ask, which site?  The two issues with fish are GH and pH, with GH the more significant generally speaking.  KH has no direct impact on fish, although it would if very high, and of course it buffers pH which is indirect.  If you had fish like rift lake cichlids, you would want the pH to remain higher and a lack of buffering might be an issue here as it could allow the pH to lower more than what is good for these fish.  Most hard water fish will have issues in acidic water as their physiology is not designed to function in this so it causes the fish to work harder to keep its internal systems functioning and this weakens the fish.
 
No mention is made of pH here, but I would assume it is in the 7's?  If yes, and with your GH, angelfish that are commercially raised (i.e., not wild caught) should have no issues.  Most angelfish available in stores will be commercially raised, unless the store imports wild caught fish and they would say so.  And the pH will likely lower as the aquarium becomes biologically established, and this would be no issue with angelfish as it would be slow, and not fluctuating which does cause problems for fish.
 
Byron.

 

[Alexp08]

The main site I look at fish on is liveaquaria.com
My ph is roughly 7.2
And tge angelfish are off ebay lol and it says they were tank bread

 

[Alexp08]

This was the 2013 report. It may be worth mentioning that im on the outskirts of town and the last house on my block

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am going to make two quick observations here and then leave the real work to Byron, who is already on top of things.
 
1) Cichlids come in two basic varieties for the most part. African rift lake cichlids which come from harder and higher pH waters and New World cichlids from Central and South America. CAs like parameters similar to the Africans, but the SAs want lower pH and softer water. Angels are from the latter group. They would not be happy in water with a GH of 22 dg. And this brings me to,
 
2) Hardness of 22 dg is equal to about 392 ppm and is hard water. Your water report above shows hardness at 79 ppm.

 

[Byron]

I took a look at that fish site, Drs. Foster&Smith.  I've no idea why they should give KH and not GH, unless by "KH" they actuallky mean GH.  I also don't know where they get their data, and that can be important.  There are other reliable fish species data sites [I'm not saying they are not reliable, just that there are others that are].
 
To your water data...things are certainly confused.  According to that data you posted from the water site, you have soft water.  The GH is not likely to change throughout the system; pH can, but not GH as it is due to calcium and magnesium (primarily) and these do not get dissipated out of water just by the system.  A reading of 79 ppm equates to around 4 dGH.  To be honest, this makes more sense with your 4 dKH too.  Can you go to another store for a water test of GH (remember to get the number) as I would seriously question the previous?  You could buy a test kit, but rather than spend the money for one test (as you would not likely need it again), another store might resolve this.
 
If these latest numbers are accurate, you have soft/very soft water with a pH in the mid 7's.  I would look at soft water fish.  There is insufficient mineral here for hard water species.
 
Edit:  Something just occurred to me after I posted.  The water you took to the store for testing, was it out of the aquarium, or tap on its own?  The point here is that you are adding salt which will raise GH (though I would hope not as much as here) but there could also be something calcareous in your aquarium and this too adds calcium raising GH but it would not normally affect the KH.  Please confirm, and if it was tank water, we can look at what may have caused it.
 
Byron.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I shop at FosterSmith a lot for hard goods. I do not shop at their Live Aquaria site at all. Their info for plecos was not real good. It may have been improved but in years past I have emailed them about specific incorrect information, cited sources, and they never changed it.
 
While their fish may be in decent shape in terms of buying from them, I would look for reliable information on the fish itself at another site.

 

[Alexp08]

Thanks or the info. I took both aquarium and tap water to them so I could see the difference. Both readings were very close. Unfortunately they are the only fish store within a hour radius but I will see if I can't find a friend with a test kit and then get back to you. Thanks

 

[Alexp08]

Well just got back from mt LFS they dont have a test kit for GH. So im buying and api kit offline for 5 dollars.

 

[Alexp08]

Okay so I just got my test kit in the mail. In an API test. My KH was 4-5 and my GH was 6-7