gf225 please have a look at this

[danski]

well im a little more confused now. i stumbled onto another forum and without giving any names i posted a question regarding my hagen ladders and got this response. my question was along the lines of adding more yeast to my cannister to get more bubbles and if a bubble counter would stop any potential releases into the tank.
i got this


Danski,
The Hagen system is basically useless for tank bigger than 10gl. Even you use multiple canisters. Also, half teaspoon of yeast is waayyy to much for that hagen canister. That hagen canister can only produce 8 bubble/minute the most and the rate will drop after a few days. If you don't like to see the soda bottle, you can always place is under your tank. That what I do.

i mentioned that there was a pretty in depth post regarding this and that i easily get more bubbles with 1/2 tsp. im pretty sure your right since what you said seems to be tru. i mentioned im trying to get co2 levels up to combat this

any ideas im using only seachem flourish and seachem root tabs.here are yesterdays stats
kh-9
nitrate-5.0
ammo-0
nitrite-0
ph-6.8 to 7.0
thanks im not tryin to start anything here just though id get some other ideas. from what ive been reading here maybe the plants have used up all the available nutrients and algae is taking hold. but i dont know what to do. EI perhaps? what do i buy if so?

 

[George Farmer]

Danski,
The Hagen system is basically useless for tank bigger than 10gl. Even you use multiple canisters. Also, half teaspoon of yeast is waayyy to much for that hagen canister. That hagen canister can only produce 8 bubble/minute the most and the rate will drop after a few days. If you don't like to see the soda bottle, you can always place is under your tank. That what I do.

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Obviously hasn't seen my, Jimbooo or zig's tanks - dare I say they probably look better than his (although this is a presumption), running great on multiple units with 1/2+ tspn yeast.

Danski - You clearly have enough CO2 with a KH of 9 and pH 6.8 to 7. Is it stable?

What lighting and photoperiod are you running?

Your NO3 is low at 5ppm, aim for 10 to 30ppm.

Do you know your PO4? This needs to be 0.5 to 2ppm.

As for dry ferts, read and learn zig's EI article - there's links to purchasing them.

Hope this helps.

 

[danski]

thats kinda what i thought.im running a coralife aqualight w/65 watt cf at 6700k.im runnunig my lights at 5hrs on 2 off and 5 on again.as for the other parameters you mentioned i havent found a kit to measure them yet.how do i raise my NO3? my co2 seems to be stable since nearly everytime i test i seem to get nearly the same results. i can usually count to 9 drops of kh before color change everytime. and ph of 6.8 to 7. so the EI will destroy the algae ha? any ideas on what i can do now to slow it until i can get EI figured out?
thanks

 

[George Farmer]

To raise NO3 add KNO3. See the EI article.

In the mean time reduce your lighting to 4 on 4 off 4 on. It's a pity you have just the one light unit as halving the intensty would work well. Keep CO2 stable - changing it may cause more problems.

EI is ideal in your situation.

 

[zig]

Hiya Danski

The Hagen system works but you have to keep on top of it, as im sure you are well aware, i just had a quick look at my own ladder and counted the bubbles, right now with a mix i put on 2 days ago im getting about 4 bubbles every 15 seconds on one ladder the other is a little slower but its due to be changed in the next hour, i have 2 ladders running on a 42gallon and dont really have a problem getting the magic number of 30ppm, i just alternate the refills so they are done within a few days of each other and not on the same day.

Anyway having said that i want to go pressurised, and am currently looking into that option, just to do away with the hassle of changeing mixes every few days and having to test to see im hitting the right numbers, but the system does work, and as probably the cheapest most effective option i would still recommend it, but you do have to stay on top of it, i only let each mix go a maximum of about 7 days, but thats just me others can get away with longer before they change a mix, but whatever works for you .

If you feel the ladders are not working for you look into a pressurised system.

You should also look into EI again its up to you, its a system that works for me and i will continue to use it, you only need a few things to start

KNO3 - Potassium nitrate - for no3 or nitrate

KH2PO4 - Mono potassium phosphate - for po4 or phosphate

A nitrate and phosphate testkit, you have a nitrate kit so all you need is a phosphate kit, you might be better off ordering one online as most lfs dont stock them.

The above chemicals you will get HERE and they are really cheap and will last you a very long time, order 1lb of each and it comes to about 6 dollars, so you are hardly going to lose your shirt by giving it a go, but again its up to you if thats what you want to do.

Depending on what type of algae it is there are different ways of dealing with it, each case will be different, try and read up on it and identify the type you have, you may have a couple of verities.

But its really up to you at the end of the day what you want to do, if somebody says the ladders dont work, thats up to you to decide, you seem to have no problem hitting the correct numbers so i dont know why you would doubt it, algae problems are par for the course with planted tanks we will all have algae at some stage, even very experienced plantkeepers will become complacent at some point and will also have problems, i dont think anyone here is trying to steer you in the wrong direction, gf has used the ladders for a couple of years a lot longer than me and if he says they work i would tend to believe him, if the other guy says they dont work well they obviously dont work for him, each of us has to decide what we think is best, we are only hobbyists trying to help each other after all.

 

[danski]

i really love this forum. thanks alot everyone your more than helpful. i am also considering getting a pressurized unit to do away with all the changes but im not quite keen on it all. i dont know exactly all the parts i would need to have all i need.i wanna get a kit that has it all so i dont have to go and buy other parts.ZIG and gf225 you guys here are always very helpful and smart at this thing also.i dont wanna give up since im looking forward to the day when i can see all my plants pearling away again.gf225 thanks for the lighting schedule as i will do that immediately.do i need a bubble counter and what does it do? in the meantime im gonna give it a go at tracking down some of this stuff at thelfs even though they probably dont have it it will give me an excuse to go shopping
thanks again

 

[danski]

okay i picked up a phosphate test kit and i come up with 1.0 is this okay or too low. i think target is .05 to 2ppm so i am within range here maybe its just my no3 i need to raise? anyway guess its time to take the EI plunge and hope this does it.

 

[zig]

okay i picked up a phosphate test kit and i come up with 1.0 is this okay or too low. i think target is .05 to 2ppm so i am within range here maybe its just my no3 i need to raise? anyway guess its time to take the EI plunge and hope this does it.

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1 is a good number for phosphate, you should also test your tapwater for both nitrate and phosphate, to find out what levels you are dealing with, these will be your base numbers, because this will be the same water you will add to your tank.

you should test the phosphate level in a few days time and see if it the same or if it has reduced, your plants will be useing up the phosphate, you should never let it drop to 0, the nitrate levels will drop a lot quicker than the phosphate.

You may at this stage be introduceing the phosphate via fish food or fish waste or it may well be in your tapwater.

But you really need to increase your nitrates to at least 10ppm (and the cheapest way to do this is with the KNO3) the nitrate levels can deplete quite quickly in planted tanks with decent levels of light, you should also check this level again in a couple of days to see if it has gone down, again you should never let it reach 0.

I would order the dry fertilisers in the link i gave you and start from there on EI and off couse read the pinned article, you need to start doseing nitrate soon as your levels are to low and could easily reach 0, this may be the cause of your algae, they may have bottomed out at some stage, once you get your parameters in order nitrate, phosphate, co2 etc, then you can start to deal with the algae that you have in your tank, if the parameters are'nt in order you will probably be plagued by algae in the months ahead and may never get rid of it because there will allways be some discrepency in your fertiliser levels.

When ordering the dry ferts i would order KNO3 and KH2PO4 (nitrate and phosphate) as you will probably need both and as i said before they will last a very long time.

 

[danski]

thank you i will place my order tonite and have alresdy printed your EI article for studying. once again thanks for the help..

 

[danski]

k one last question.i am placing my order and they are out of measuring spoons can i just use regular spoons? or are they some special ones for dry fert? if they are special anyone have any other place to get them. thanks

 

[George Farmer]

I don't use measuring spoons. You can use a normal (level) teaspoon - here's the conversions

Compound grams per teaspoon

Potassium Sulfate 6g (estimated)
Potassium Nitrate 5.6g
Potassium Chloride 6g
Magnesium Sulfate 5.4g
KH2PO4 4.8g

Personally for my KNO3 I added 100grams KNO3 into 500ml water. 100grams is easy to weigh in decent scales. In your tank this will add just over 1ppm NO3 for every 1ml solution added.

For KH2PO4 I added one teaspoon into 500ml water. This will add 0.07ppm for every 1ml solution.

Check out this calculator (the link's in the EI article too.) http/www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm

As for pressurized then you have a good choice in the US (I assume that's where your from?) You will need a cylinder, regulator/needle valve, check-valve, hosing and diffuser/reactor.

Check this out for a good deal. - http/cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Check out these guys too http/www.aquatic-store.com/ - click on "co2 equipment" in the left menu. I wish the UK had similar choice and prices!!

 

[danski]

wow thats all i need and its 66dollars? besides the cylinder i suppose right?

 

[George Farmer]

wow thats all i need and its 66dollars? besides the cylinder i suppose right?

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yep, just a cylinder and your pressurized.

 

[zig]

gf whats the check valve for and where does it go on the setup?

Im looking for a diy system today but its the first ive heard of a check valve.

 

[George Farmer]

gf whats the check valve for and where does it go on the setup?

Im looking for a diy system today but its the first ive heard of a check valve.

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Just a one-way valve to prevent backwater entering the delicate mechanics of the regulator. It is fitted just after the reg.