German ram cichlids

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Fizzle1785

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I have 3 German ram cichlids in my 32g tank. 2 seem to be doing fine but the third has lost color and is constantly harassed by the other two. I believe all 3 are males. Fish eats and seems healthy otherwise. Constantly bullied by other two rams. Thoughts? Concerns?
 

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It could be you have the makings of a pair. You might want to setup some structure on the other side of the tank to give the one somewhere to hide. Maybe the other two will leave it alone if it's stays out of their area.
 
I think they are all bolivian rams...not a big difference but thought I'd share.

Try to add more hiding spots and separations, but if it continues you might have to split them. The two teaming up could be a mating pair. If they breed things will probably get worse.
 
From the photos I am quite confident the three are the common or blue ram, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi and not the Bolivian M. altispinosus. And it would appear all are male, though if I saw them interacting it would either confirm or refute.

The one being harassed needs to be immediately removed or it will be killed. At that point, the other two, assuming they are males, will likwly not get along and you might be lucky and have them establish territories on opposite ends or you might not and one of them will then be harassed to death. This is in the inherent makeup of the fish's DNA and you cannot alter it; only individual fish for whatever reason not behaving normally will allow more than one male unless the tank is large enough (inb the fish's minds) to allow for both.

On a different matter of upkeep, this species must have warmth; no less than 80F (27C) but preferably a couple degrees higher...but this is not going to suit your neon tetra or glowlight tetra who both require lower temperatures in the ranges 70-77F (21-25 C) for neons and 74-82F (24-28 C) for glowlights. And with ranges the best long-term care is usually mid-range, with the low and high ends considered temporarily suitable. There is no middle ground when the species are those here with such divergent requirements. Just to explain...temperature drives a fish's metabolism because they are ectotherms, and a couple degrees may not seem like much to us but to them it is significant. It weakens them, which will mean shorter lifespans and possible issues along the way that they otherwise would be able to deal with, such as disease.
 
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Thank you for the in-depth reply. My tank is set at 81F. I knew the rams liked it a little warmer and all the fish were introduced at this temperature. Do you suggest removing the rams then? I got these rams because they’re about the only peaceful Cichlid with my other species but knew they could have issues with each other. I was also hoping it wouldn’t turn out to be 3 males. Will stores take the fish back?
 
Thank you for the in-depth reply. My tank is set at 81F. I knew the rams liked it a little warmer and all the fish were introduced at this temperature. Do you suggest removing the rams then? I got these rams because they’re about the only peaceful Cichlid with my other species but knew they could have issues with each other. I was also hoping it wouldn’t turn out to be 3 males. Will stores take the fish back?

With respect to the three rams and their chances of getting along, it is clear from your first post that one of them is not going to last long so it should be removed. As for the remaining two, as I said, this is a gamble and no one can foretell the future, but if one of them is picking on the third one now it is most likely to turn against the other when the third is no longer an issue, assuming all three are male. So, to be safe and not risk the fish, I would suggest returning the picked on ram and one of the others (the one showing aggression might be a trouble maker down the road too so maybe this one?). Leaving you one male ram.

Temp is OK for the rams, but your neon tetras should not be kept in this warm water. So if you keep the ram, either remove the neons or the ram to a second tank if possible? Or return the rams and lower the temperature to around 76F. I don't know what else you have that might need a warmer temperature, but this reduced temp of 75-77F is fine for the neons, glowlights and otos I see in the photos.

That I think answers your questions (as for stores, some will, some won't). I will just comment on how to select a pair of rams to avoid what is occurring here.

Rams (this applies to both the common blue and the Bolivian) must select their mates and bond. Any female and any male put together may not last long before the female (usually) is dead. Only if the fish accept each other and bond will they be likely to get along for their normal lifespan which is 4-5 years. You select a bonded or likely-to-bond pair by observing the group of rams in the store tank. You can buy a dozen or so and do this at home, but then you will have 10 rams to get rid of unless you have multiple tanks, so it is best observed in the store. Colours, fins, etc are never reliable gender indicators, only behaviour; if the pair are spawning then colour will be very obvious, but not usually in crowded store tanks.

Males will be seen to continually "challenge" each other by charging (with or often without actual physical touching), or more aggressively head bunting, shoving, biting. The males will do this continually if there is more than one of them. The females will not, but will tend to be browsing the substrate looking for food and rather ignoring the male activities. If a male has one of the females near to him during all this, and he basically ignores her and she ignores him, they are more likely to accept each other, and may already have done if you see the male defending her at all. There is never a guarantee, but this is more likely to lead to success.

Only one pair should be in a given tank unless it is very spacious. And this is not always the best aquarium, because with the necessary higher temperature for the rams there are few other species that can be included, which can make for a less interesting aquarium depending upon how one sees things.
 
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I started about a year ago with the 2 types of tetras ottos glofish and some mystery snails for my kids but now I love it and moved up from 10g to 32g. The new fish were 2 angels 4 khuli loaches and 3 rams. Recently my girlfriend just bought me a golden nugget pleco for Christmas because she liked it haha.. I don’t mind returning the rams. I feel bad but those were a rather rushed purchase because I was aiming to get angels and research led me to them because of their peaceful nature(to other species)
 
I started about a year ago with the 2 types of tetras ottos glofish and some mystery snails for my kids but now I love it and moved up from 10g to 32g. The new fish were 2 angels 4 khuli loaches and 3 rams. Recently my girlfriend just bought me a golden nugget pleco for Christmas because she liked it haha.. I don’t mind returning the rams. I feel bad but those were a rather rushed purchase because I was aiming to get angels and research led me to them because of their peaceful nature(to other species)

I so often seem to be the bearer of bad news, but it wouldn't be helpful to ignore things. With two angels you are in much the same issue as with the rams. Angelfish also must select their mate and bond. If you happened to get two females, things may be fine; two males and one will not likely last long. A male/female, might work if they bond and if not it might last for a couple of spawnings before the male has had enough. There are other angelfish issues too.

I know it is tempting to like a fish and buy it, and store staff frequently know as little about them as the customer and advice is not usually reliable. The GN pleco should not be a problem, fortunateely, but this is a bad habit and one you should get your friend out of very quickly, lol. Always fully research a fish before acquiring it; keeping a fish in inappropriate environment is cruel to the fish because it expects a specific environment and cannot understand why it is not in such an environment, and this causes stress which seriously weakens the fish leading to other problems and always a shorter lifespan. Freshwater fish simply cannot fully accept what is not intended for them to function well.
 
I don’t mind the information or critiquing. I appreciate the responses. I haven’t noticed any problems with the angels they both seem quite peaceful. It’s been about a month since I’ve gotten them. I will probably look to bring the rams back and reduce the temperature
 
I must learn not to rely on my memory so much...my apology, I missed something with the Gold Nugget, species Baryancistrus xanthellus. This is a fish you should return. It attains 8 to 9 inches, and this will have a significant impact on the tank's biological system. Here is some information copied from a profile of this species I wrote several years ago for another site.

Peaceful as juveniles, but maturing males are very territorial and thus aggressive [Planet Catfish uses the term "downright vicious"] with conspecifics and likely other similar substrate fish. Not a fish for the normal home aquarium due to its specific requirements as mentioned in the Description section. Best as a single specimen unless the tank is very large, otherwise they will kill each other.

Origin and Habitat: Brazil, the Volta Grande section of the Rio Xingu (above Belo Monte falls) and the upstream tributary Rio Iriri. Found under and around submerged boulders and flat rocks in the shallow but rapid flowing stretches.

This striking pleco is frequently available through dealers but is not really a good community fish. Its size requires a larger tank, and its need for rapid currents does not match most hobby fishes.
 

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