German Blue Ram Mouth

[Sesshis_grl]

Hello

I was attempting to take pictures of my German Blue and noticed something on her mouth. Her mouth looks fine, no swelling or discoloration, but right below her bottom lip is two red bumps. They literally just look like two red bumps right next to each other. Looks the size of period "." ...no other weirdness going on that I can tell..shes been eating regularly going so far as to come to the top to get food instead of scavenging on the bottom. Bolivian picks on her when food is around chasing her away but I don't think I've ever seen him nip or touch her mouth.

Does this sound like an illness or a wound? I've never read anything that has described this before

Update: it looks different today. Almost like there is a red sore under her mouth, and there looks like there might be red in her mouth. The Bolivian keeps picking on her today but keeps pecking her from underneath, not the mouth area. I don't have a quarentine tank and I'm worried this might be contagious. Any help would be appreciated

 

[Athena]

Without seeing a pic it's difficult to say exactly. I do know that Rams, as with many other cichlids, can get "war wounds" around the mouth area due to lots of sparring and squabbling that sometimes goes on regarding territory and food. They tend to face up to each other, taunting, dancing backwards and forwards very quickly, edging nearer and nearer to their opponent and then they rush at them and either head butt them or nip at their mouth.

If you're worried about it, you could help it to heal with a few extra small water changes, or some melafix at half dose (since it's not a major injury).

If it doesn't clear within a week try to post some pics as it may be ulcers or parasitic even.

Athena

 

[Sesshis_grl]

Sorry for lack of pic. I don't have a good camera and she's not really coming to the front anymore to even try. I just did a 50% water change and will probally try doing that. Thing is I haven't seen pecking on the mouth and she never really pecks back at him, so I honestly don't know if its a wound or not. If I use melafix won't it kill the bacteria in my tank? I also asked in the tropical discussion if a salt bath would be a good idea

any opinions?

 

[WILDER]

If the melafix dosn;t work at half dose get back to the board.
She really needs isolating if the male pecking at her.

 

[Athena]

Hi, I've just read your update - shame you can't post a pic of this sore that's now appeared. GBRs are quite sensitive little cichlids and if she is getting bullied by the Bolivian it will be enough to stress her and this, in turn, can lead to health problems.

Does the red mark look like a raised boil or ulcer? I've seen a similar thing when I had a dwarf gourami and I treated it with an anti-bacterial (I used Myxazin) which cleared it up fairly quickly. It says on the bottle that it can be used for "...fin rot, body rot, ulcers, sores and treats other bacterial infections".

Used at the correct dosage it shouldn't have any marked effect on your filter bacteria. With any medications, follow instructions carefully so as not to overdose and remember to do the water change, as advised on the bottle. To remove any excess medication from the water after treatment has ended, you can put some carbon sponge in the filter (if you already have this in the tank, remove it prior to medicating).

Athena

 

[Sesshis_grl]

Ok Ill go look at some antibacterials and see what I can do. Its very weird..and hard to describe. It went from literally two little red dots to I guess a red splot on her lower jaw and some red inside the mouth, has something hanging off but barely and isn't worms or what cotton mouth describes. Shes staying at the top of the tank and not moving a whole lot, which is why I'm worried.

The aggression is off and on. Today was a bit crazy where he kept going for her side or underbelly, now hes not messing with her at all. Today is weird, on the norm he usually just chases and thats only really when food is given and she swims close to him. He doesn't attack her otherwise yes I would have moved her, I just don't know whats going on. It seems like she has a sore/rash that happened overnight


thanks for the advice

Wilder - what do you mean get back to the board?

P.s: just did a dose of melafix, it says to use for 7 days. Doesn't say anything about water changes. I usually change their water once a day or every 3 days, should I stop doing these? or would it actually help

 

[Athena]

Hiya - I think Wilder meant that if the Melafix doesn't work, to let us know (i.e. "get back to the board" = "get back to us on the forum" LOL).

When you say you normally change their water every 1-3 days...you mean that's what you've been doing since you set the tank up and cycled it? That's a lot of water changes! Roughly what percentage do you change each time?

Or are you doing these frequent water changes because you are doing a fish-in cycle and trying to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels down?

Just curious because usually it's not necessary to do a water change more than once a week or fortnightly (depending on size of tank, stock level, type of fish, any live plants etc).

Doing water changes during a period of medicating all depends on the type of medication used and what is recommended on the bottle. With Melafix I don't think there are any rules about not doing a water change during treatment. As it's a 7 day course, that would tie in with a weekly water change anyway. But if you want to do a small (10-15%), extra water changes mid-treatment, do the water change first then add your meds.

Also, when did you last do a water test?

Is your ram any better/worse today?

Regards, Athena

 

[WILDER]

Red dots on fish can be septicemia to parasites.
Make sure the fish is not showing any parasite symtoms.

I would forget the melafix and add an internal bacteria med, if you think its not caused by parasites.

 

[Sesshis_grl]

Help!
Omg it keeps going back and forth! I'm really worried about her. Ok yesterday I did a dose of melafix and then went to school and decided to go to the lfs for treatment and went to 2 different ones for opinions. One said fungus, another said septicimia, I'm wondering if its mouth rot/injury/ weird cotton mouth, and you guys are suggesting parasites/septicimia/bacterial. I got something that should treat all of those. It is called Fungus Guard by Tetra and it does fungus/bacteria/septicimia(i know its a form of bacteria)/mouth rot/dropsy/wounds and blah blah blah. So went home and she looked worse after just melafix. More red and on lip and more in mouth, looked inflammed, and was so close to the top of the water that she might as well had her head out of water. So I used this tablet and it actually started to make it look a little better, like not so inflammed. but she was still at the top of tank. she started gradually coming to middle level and then went to the bottom to sleep.

This morning: I come home and she is right back up at the top again. she ends up moving from one end to the other but isnt swimming much, doesnt look to have clamped fins but idk. She had a big red dot that looked like a drop of blood on her chin! size of a pinhead, looked like collagulated blood. Went away for 5-10 mins came back and it was just gone. Idk if she rubbed it off or what. So now she looks like she has road rash (you know when you scrape your knee) on her chin. Looks like it could be getting better inside her mouth. she went after the food today but seemed to have trouble sucking it up, like she kept missing the food. Didn't really see her eat much but at least shes trying, it might hurt to do so. No one else seems to have problems (knock on wood). i really don't want anything happening to her but idk what to do. It keeps looking better and then looking worse and back and forth. does it sound like its healing? or is this just getting worse? i keep searching for what the heck it is but can't find a match. I don't know if I should wait the 3-4 days and do another fungus tablet or stop and try some other treatment. Its so hard when these things take a couple days! i don't want to be using the wrong thing and the whole time its getting worse


Reason for frequent water changes: I usually like to do once a week because it keeps it a little cleaner than every 2 weeks. But the reason I do this with this tank is I bought 2 rams and thought the tank was fully cycled(had been cycling for around 3 months). I did a couple of extra water changes jsut to make sure and then tested the water becasue i had a random zebra danio death. I tested and there are slight ammonia n nitrite. So Ive been doing I guess the very end of my fish in cycle with them. Idk if i made a mistake and it wasnt fully cycled or if there just wasnt enough bacteria for the rams either way I was trying to not take any chances becasue rams are so delicate. Anyway left them for maybe 3 days? without a water change and this happens I haven't done a water test yet but will prolly do that soon

Any ideas to what this is???
should I switch meds or stick with this fungal one?

I have pics (kinda bad) of the pin sized red dot on her but I am at school right now so can't post til later. and thats if my internet decides its going to start working
Also with the parasite thing I don't see any signs of it being that. No worms, nothing coming out of anus, nothing on mouth, not skinny, and has been eating normally up until now. It just went from 2 red dots, to sore, to sore on chin n mouth, to less inflammed redness, to blood dot, to red n scabbed looking. I'm debating trying Maracyn 1 & 2, but I don't want to switch if this is working or if it would be harmful to change meds at this point. Looked up Myxazin and I don't know if I have anyone who sells that, I haven't seen it anywhere.

help


Pictures: Sorry they are bad but this is the best I could do with her staying at top and bad camera. Again this weird red dot is gone now and she has a scab appearance now I think

 

[Sesshis_grl]

Bump

I'm scared shes dying. She didn't even notice food today, let alone try and eat. She has a white spot on her head that looks like a scale has fallen off or something. Shes staying by the filter in the corner, again not really moving

 

[WILDER]

I would switch to maracyn one and two fast.
Can you isolate the fish to a hospital tank and treat there?

Septicemia hard to cure once it advances.

 

[Sesshis_grl]

How could it advance though?? I treated it the day after I noticed the red dots. I'm going to go get some. No I cant move her T.T I'm just going to have to try and save her and do another cycle.

 

[WILDER]

Septicemia is blood poisoning. Some times the med not keeping up with the bacteria multiplying.

Septicemia even hard to cure with antibiotics if you don't catch it in time.

 

[WILDER]

How big is the white spot on her head. It is bigger than a grain of salt.
Any redness to the spot.

Columnaris spots can present themselves on the head region.

 

[Sesshis_grl]

Ok I just treated with Maracyn 1 and 2. Did a massive water change before I used the meds. It says that water changes I guess during the treatment are not needed but if its killing the bacteria won't I need to do daily water changes before treating? Confused.

Also she still looks really bad, changed corners but is either pressed up against the glass or at the very top of the waterline. She seems to be going slightly sideways... but will right herself. Shes in a corner I cant see very well but trying to look at the dot looks to be a tad bigger than a grain of salt. More the size of a match head, maybe a tad smaller. No red

I am supposed to go home this weekend but since this is an antiboitic do I need to stay? especially regarding water changes. Or will she/tank be ok until sunday? I really need to know this today.

Thanks for help