General Angelfish Questions..

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Not that im planning on getting angelfish or anything, but i have some general questions about them that i'd like to know just to improve my general knowledge of them- anyway, here goes ;
When angelfish pair up for breeding...
Every now and then, i'll see a tank full of of adult or semi-mature angelfish, i've also read that its imposible to sex angels unless they pair up for breeding, i've also read many storys across the forum of angels pairing up for breeding and trying to kill everything else in the tank. This leads to the questions of how responsable it is to keep angels together and what are the best methods of keeping a stress-free community angel aquarium etc;
a. Do you need to condition angels or take any particular steps to cause angels to breed/pair up for spawning or can they often breed regardless in a normal aquarium on a normal diet etc?
b. Is there anything you can do to prevent angels from pairing up to mate and stuff?
c. What do you do in a community tank when 2 angels decide to pair up for breeding and want to destroy all the other fish- do you move all the other fish out until they have finished their buisness, separate the angels and hope they wont love each other when they next see each other, or move the angels out and hope that the disruption to their enviroment will put them off breeding etc..?
d. Is it wise to keep lots of angels together or better to just keep them alone etc? What is the advised minimum of angels you need(sorry i am not sure exactly how sociable these fish are and their social requirements and stuff)? Are they less likely to pair up in a large community angel tank?
e. What is the minimum size/age an angel needs to be to breed?
f. Do the angels need to be a similar age and size to each other to breed or doesn't it matter to much?

General angel keeping questions;
a. As far as i am aware, they are many types of angels, but are these just color variations or actual different species of angels?
b. Not only the advised minimum amount of gallons, but what is the advised minimum tank dimensions i.e length. width and height of the tank for angels to live in as i gather they need alot of height to their tanks..?
c. What is considered a good varied diet for angels? I take it they need alot of protein/critters like worms in their diet?
d. What are known to be very successful tank mates with angels? Are there any particular fish species that always seem to get along fine with angels even when the angels pair up for breeding?
e. Are angels considered hardy, normal or fragile fish- or do they vary from type to type of angel too much to say?
f. Are there any particular deseases or illnesses that angels seem to be prone to i.e finrot, fungus, swim bladder disorder etc etc?

Thanks a bunch for your time, any comments/info is much appreiciated- i would really like to know some of the answers to these questions as i often come along angel orientated topics on here and wish i could help more .

 

[beechey]

bump as i would like to know a lot of answers to Tokis-Phoenix[b/] questions

 

[Booboo puppy]

I too am interested in answers to these questions. I have a 40 gallon tank with 5 Rasbora Harlequins, 4 julii corys, and 4 otos. About 15 years ago all I had in the tank were angelfish but they all died when the power went out for a week during winter. I would like to add 3 to 5 angelfish to complete the tank. Would they go okay in this set up? What does "veil" mean on an angelfish?

 

[Tolak]

a. Do you need to condition angels or take any particular steps to cause angels to breed/pair up for spawning or can they often breed regardless in a normal aquarium on a normal diet etc?

Mine have been on a diet of various flakes, brine shrimp, & occasional bloodworms. Cooler water changes, a few degrees cooler than their tank water will often induce spawning. Adding water from another tank with recently spawning fish will also help. Fish secrete hormones when spawning, other fish can “smell” them for lack of a better term. http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/breedi...%20seasons.html is an excellent article on simulating seasonal changes to cause spawning.

b. Is there anything you can do to prevent angels from pairing up to mate and stuff?

Cooler tank temperatures will stop spawning, usually. This will lessen aggression, usually. I’m trying for the opposite, so I really don’t have any hands on experience with this.

c. What do you do in a community tank when 2 angels decide to pair up for breeding and want to destroy all the other fish- do you move all the other fish out until they have finished their business, separate the angels and hope they wont love each other when they next see each other, or move the angels out and hope that the disruption to their environment will put them off breeding etc..?

For the most part, pairing & breeding angels only show aggression towards other angels, or fish that look similar to angels. Pulling the object they spawned on & rinsing it in the sink works well, the pair is a little confused for a few minutes, then the aggression tends to lessen, until it’s time to spawn again. The best thing to do, from a breeding standpoint, is to either divide the tank, giving the pair their own section, or pulling the pair, putting them in their own tank. Separating the pair works, until they find another angel of the opposite sex.

d. Is it wise to keep lots of angels together or better to just keep them alone etc? What is the advised minimum of angels you need (sorry I am not sure exactly how sociable these fish are and their social requirements and stuff)? Are they less likely to pair up in a large community angel tank?

I prefer to keep lost together, similar to Africans, if any pairing occurs the aggression is spread. Worst case is 3 in a 30 or less gallon tank, and a pair forms from two of them. You need to be keeping a close eye on this; someone is going to get hurt. I would keep no less than 6 in a 55 gallon. If any pairs form, you have the aggression spread between 4 other fish, in a 4-foot tank. They are more likely to pair, the more fish there are, but aggression is spread between all the other fish.

e. What is the minimum size/age an angel needs to be to breed?

It’s more age than size. They may start to pair as young as 6 months, 9 to 12 months is more normal.

f. Do the angels need to be a similar age and size to each other to breed or doesn't it matter too much?

As long as they are mature, they can breed. Somewhere around 4 to 6 years of age is when breeding starts to decline.

Folks keeping & breeding angels do some things the same, some things wildly differently, so the info here is my experiences. I try to breed angels, not keep them from breeding, so some of these answers are what should work.

I have at the moment a 65 with 2 breeding pairs, & 3 unpaired angels, 7 angels total. A couple of albino bristlenose & a small school of panda corys round out the tank. It too 18 months of switching pairs, pulling & adding fish, to find a compatible mix. The 2 pairs in there are mildly aggressive, I’ve had to pull out 2 other pairs, and several other individuals during this time to make it work.

I also have a 55, incredibly overfiltered, with 3 new, within the last few weeks, pairs. There are also around 15 nearly mature angels, along with a group of corys & some juvie bristlenose. Spreading the aggression until the paint dries on another rack. This is pretty much the max for d above or b below. I’ve seen breeders with busier tanks, this is a breeding situation. The 65 is a show tank, stocked more normally.

General angel keeping questions;
a. As far as I am aware, they are many types of angels, but are these just color variations or actual different species of angels?

The ones you will find in your lfs are variations of pterophyllum scalare. There are different species besides p. scalare, but the color variations found in shops are mainly the one species. Other species are p. altum, and p. leapoldi, with p. dumerilii & p. eimekei being more or less subspecies of scalare or leopoldi.

b. Not only the advised minimum amount of gallons, but what is the advised minimum tank dimensions i.e. length. width and height of the tank for angels to live in as I gather they need alot of height to their tanks..?

Bare minimum height should be 16 inches, 18 is better. Standard fin angels can get by with the 16” depth, veils need the 18+ inches. Minimum for a pair would usually be considered a 20 high, 24”x12”x16”. Breeders divide a 29 or 30 for 2 pairs on a regular basis.

c. What is considered a good varied diet for angels? I take it they need alot of protein/critters like worms in their diet?

Depends on their age, fry get fresh bbs for the first few week, after that flake food is slowly introduced. When I’m growing out juvies I rotate between 4 or 5 different flake foods, bbs, & gradually frozen brine shrimp. Potential breeders will get bloodworms one a week, active breeders will get bloodworm twice a week. They all get brine shrimp a few times a week once large enough to eat it.


d. What are known to be very successful tank mates with angels? Are there any particular fish species that always seem to get along fine with angels even when the angels pair up for breeding?

I keep corys & plecs with breeders, everyone gets along fine, as long as the plecs don’t start eating spawns. It gets breeding pairs upset, they can peck at an armored catfish for a long time, and don’t do any damage.

e. Are angels considered hardy, normal or fragile fish- or do they vary from type to type of angel too much to say?

I would say normal. You probably couldn’t cycle a tank with them as you could with a zebra danio, but they certainly don’t require the perfect water of a discus. Any wild caught angel would require the same care as a discus.

f. Are there any particular diseases or illnesses that angels seem to be prone to i.e finrot, fungus, swim bladder disorder etc etc?

Aside from occasional constipation, which comes from angels eating like pigs, thus easy to overfeed, I’ve seen a tendency towards internal parasites. Metronidazole takes care of this really well.

Here's a pic of a silver veil, standards have the shorter fins;

 

[Booboo puppy]

THANK YOU!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thanks loads Tolak for all the info and your time, found it very helpful !

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

bump, just in case anyones still interested .

 

[Die_Grinder]

says in a book of mine that there are 2 diff types of angels, one hads normal fins and one has longer fins.
tho they still belong to the same genus.

 

[BigIan]

Thank ye kindly tolak...

besides the corys and plec what else would make a good tank mate for angels???

I was thinking of throwing a few mollys in there. would that work?

 

[blitztidus]

They are gr8 together, as long as the angels cant eat them which should be almost never unless they are under 3 or so months old