Future Stocking Ideas

[SouthernCross]

Hi all,

Like many others, I'm after some thoughts on some possible stocking plans. There's a few things I'm not sure about. I've asked a few questions in the specific species forums, but I haven't gotten a lot of responses, or concrete answers, and I've noticed stocking questions in this forum tend to generate a fair bit of interest, so here goes!

My tank is 36"x14"x18". There's 7 plants (some quite large) and 2 ornaments with holes/caves in there so there's a fair few hiding places. I've calculated this to be around 148L or 39 US gallons.

My current stocking is only:
1x flame dwarf gourami
3x platies, 1 male 2 female
2x bronze cories
...about 12 inches of fish when grown (I think).

I'm only planning to stock slowly, but I've been thinking about what I'd like to end up with when fully stocked. I love having lots of colour in the tank.
I'd like to add:
- a single angel
- A group of male guppies (4-5?) - would rather not have females as I'm worried I'm going to be overrun with baby platies as is!
- At least 2 more male dwarf gouramis - maybe 3 (depending what I decide about other fish, how much space left), to spread aggression, was told not to keep just 2, but more would be okay and the more the better. Then again people have told me they have 2 and they are fine...but I like them a lot so I'll go for more in case.
- A small school (at least 6) of shoalers (what kind depends on the angel...neons if no angel, thinking otherwise cardinals or rummynoses)
- I was thinking maybe getting one more female platy (my male seems to only chase/harass one of my females at the moment) and maybe a couple more cories, maybe albinos since they're the same species and they like being in larger groups. Or an oto, if my brown algae doesn't settle down on its own, which I'm told it probably will.

At this point I know I'm starting to push over my stocking limit. My main concern is with the angel. I'd LOVE to have one, but I'm gotten mixed reports as to whether the angel will attack guppies or not, and whether it'll be aggressive towards the gouramis. In my research found so much contradictory info from compatibility charts, species indexes, opinions and the like. It's no wonder people make stocking mistakes! If I do get one, it's been suggested to me to get a really small baby one and add it last, as apparently angels are less likely to attack fish it grows up with, and is only likely to attack newly introduced fish, and that pairs are more aggressive. But I don't know how much I should trust this.

Please respond with your thoughts about the above. I care about my fish and I don't want to make a stocking mistake that will make them unhappy. And I don't trust the employees at the LFS. Their standard response seems to be 'it SHOULD be okay...'

Thoughts/ideas/experiences about all the above mentioned species (or other suggestions) would be GREATLY appreciated. I've learned in the short time I've been doing this to value your advice over the LFS anyday!

Thankyou

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i always get confused, the measurements you've given for your tank, which refers to the height of the tank. If it's 182 tall you can have your angel, if it's 14 you can't, so that could very quickly solve that debate!! They are very tall fish and you need to make sure you have a nice tall tank for them.

the reason you have such conflicting reports is because angels are cichlids, they're personality can vary massivley from fish to fish so no one will ever be able to give you a concrete answer. You just have to weight up the likely scenario's, decide on a back up plan if things go wrong and then decide if you want to take a calculated risk. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

You definately need at least 4 more cories, they will be much happier in a group. Go for more bronze's, they'll be happier in a group that's the same rather than a mixed group. Also this is one of the biggest lesson's I've learnt with stocking. Lots of mixed groups of all different fish often doesn't work, it just looks disjointed and not quite right. sticking to just a few species and getting larger groups of them looks a million times better.

so that would take you up to

1x flame dwarf gourami
3x platies, 1 male 2 female
6x bronze cories
1x angel (assuming the tank is tall enough)

that's aprox 25" of fish, IMO you then have room for 2 of the following

group of guppies
2 more dwarf gouramis
group of shoaling fish
group of ottos (don't get just 1, they like to be kept in groups of at least 3/4, 6 is better)

if you don't get the angel you've room for 3 of the above.

 

[Majjie]

Hi There,

One of the reasons everything's so confusing with fish - is that they don't always behave in the way they're supposed to
Angelfish, in particular, vary a lot from individual to individual. You might get one that's perfectly happy to live with guppies - you might get one that takes a dislike to them.

The one good thing about keeping an angel in the tank is that you shouldn't have any trouble with platy fry - they'll get eaten. I used to keep platys in with two angels and I never saw any fry. Although ... having said that ... I had some guppy fry (which l'm sorry to say I put in the tank hoping they'd be eaten) which were far too quick for the angels and grew up to be very fit and healthy adults (all female which might be significant) and which the angels ignored once they'd grown up.

The theory with a very young angel is that it won't see small fish - like neon tetras - as food, if it has grown up with them. Tolak (TFF's resident angel expert) has, however, warned against letting angels eat fry, if you don't want them to eat your tetras. You're just training them to hunt small fish.
If you get a very small angel, I wouldn't worry too much about putting it in last. I've had my angels bullied by golden rams and ... would you believe it ... by sparkling gouramis (although only with smallish angels). Your dwarf gourami is quite likely to bully a young angel.

Dwarf gouramis are territorial - if you keep all males you need a big enough tank for them all to establish their own territory. I'm not sure that 39 US gal is big enough for four - but the person to ask is Sylvia in the gourami forum. The problem with pairs is that one often harasses the other - sometimes to death - but you'll find that whatever advice you get about fish - someone will say that they've done the opposite successfully

Personally I wouldn't now buy a male platy (although I have a tank with about 8 in ) but that's a bit late for you now. If he's fixated on one female it'll probably stay that way. If you do buy another female try to get one that looks as much like him as possible. I've noticed that they tend to go for similar colours to themselves.

Yes - you need some more corys - they are happiest in groups of five or more.

Anyway - it's a bit rambling this - sorry. You're definitely going about things in the right way - researching each fish and adding them gradually. I haven't worked out the stocking levels - I'll leave that to you - but just use your common sense as well. It's all about space for swimming and whereabouts in the tank the fish are. They shouldn't be continually "bumping into" each other.

 

[SouthernCross]

Wow, two good responses already! Thanks guys!

Miss Wiggle, sorry, I should have been more specific - its 36" long, 14" wide and 18" tall. I keep it filled right to the top, so I guess that means its ok for the angel then?
I will definitely get more cories. Especially as I think they're adorable! Just to confirm - I'm led to believe by the species index here that albino cories are just a colour variant of the bronze's - do they still school together? I.e. could I get say 3 albinos and another bronze, and those 6 would be happy as a group, do they see each other as the 'same'?
I understand what you mean about stocking - I feel like I've already had to discipline myself to not want to get some of every fish I like! Worst thing is the more research I do the more gorgeous fish I come across, the list above used to be a hell of a lot longer let me tell ya! But, like you've said, with the research I am learning that groups of bigger numbers of the same species are better for most fish to be happiest.
So, since I think my tank is tall enough, and I think I'm going to try for the angel. Based on your suggestions I might consider just getting the gouramis and shoalers...then maybe I don't have to risk being devastated by guppies being eaten/attacked. If only I had more space for more tanks! I've got awhile to dwell on this though (no hurry to rush out and buy fish) so I'm still open to other suggestions. Working out a plan first!
One question, when calculating my inches of fish (so I can work out how big my shoal can be) what should I put the angel as? I'm going to get a baby, but I've read growth ranges varying by up to 5 inches?

Majjie, you weren't rambling, another great reply! I definitely did have fry concerns, so I guess that's good to know about the angel...(I always feel slightly guilty about it though! ). I don't think I'd risk putting neons in though, no matter how small the angel starts, he will grow up, and there will definitely be fry around thanks to those frisky platies!

If you do buy another female try to get one that looks as much like him as possible. I've noticed that they tend to go for similar colours to themselves.

Oddly enough, my male is a red and black wagtail - his favourite girl is bright yellow, and he ignores the white and red female! Further evidence that everyone's experience is different.
I've actually already had quite the lengthy chat about the male dwarf gouramis (led on to talk about plants and filters and all sorts of things!) with Sylvia in that forum - here. Basically she advised me to get more plants than I originally had to help create territories for them (which I have since done), and advised me to get more than two. She said 4 would probably fit, but I'm pretty sure if I get the angel this will crowd the top too much so I think I'll just stick with 3 (despite other people's replies in the thread saying two was okay.. Sylvia seems to know her stuff) She said the flame dwarf I have will have established himself and will probably show some aggression to the new additions - I was thinking it would be best to add the 2 new gouramis and the angel at the same time - then he can only pick on one at a time, the others will get a break til he settles down! Will that work? Rather than one new fish being constantly harassed?
It's hard trying to work out the levels for the fish Supposedly gouramis are top dwellers and shy but my flame roams the whole tank top to bottom, swanning his way across the front showing he owns the whole place! Hopefully he won't get too rude a shock when he finally gets a bit of competition. My platies roam the whole tank. Are most shoalers low or mid-tank swimmers? Cos I think that's what I'll need, especially with the angel the top might be crowded...

Thanks again for your responses guys! Really appreciate it, and still keen to hear from others!!!

 

[Majjie]

Yes - I would add the gouramis and the angel at the same time - and move the plants and decor around as well to make your original gourami set up a new territory (I'm sure Sylvia recommended that - and yes, she does know her stuff ).

My gouramis swim all over the tank too - but when they're just chillin - it tends to be near the top (I don't have dwarfs, though)
I think most of the tetras would be fine - not that I've kept that many - but the ones I have stick to the middle or bottom of the tank, except at feeding time. The shoalers to avoid are the small danios - they stay near the top.

Bear in mind too that most tetras don't actually shoal much once they've settled in. There's been some discussion over in the Cyprinids and Characins Forum about which tetras shoal most - if you're interested.

As for the platy - as you say - just goes to show that the fish don't know the rules

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Wow, two good responses already! Thanks guys!

Miss Wiggle, sorry, I should have been more specific - its 36" long, 14" wide and 18" tall. I keep it filled right to the top, so I guess that means its ok for the angel then?
I will definitely get more cories. Especially as I think they're adorable! Just to confirm - I'm led to believe by the species index here that albino cories are just a colour variant of the bronze's - do they still school together? I.e. could I get say 3 albinos and another bronze, and those 6 would be happy as a group, do they see each other as the 'same'?
I understand what you mean about stocking - I feel like I've already had to discipline myself to not want to get some of every fish I like! Worst thing is the more research I do the more gorgeous fish I come across, the list above used to be a hell of a lot longer let me tell ya! But, like you've said, with the research I am learning that groups of bigger numbers of the same species are better for most fish to be happiest.
So, since I think my tank is tall enough, and I think I'm going to try for the angel. Based on your suggestions I might consider just getting the gouramis and shoalers...then maybe I don't have to risk being devastated by guppies being eaten/attacked. If only I had more space for more tanks! I've got awhile to dwell on this though (no hurry to rush out and buy fish) so I'm still open to other suggestions. Working out a plan first!
One question, when calculating my inches of fish (so I can work out how big my shoal can be) what should I put the angel as? I'm going to get a baby, but I've read growth ranges varying by up to 5 inches?

nah it's standard that it's LxWxH but I never remember it

yes the albinos are a varient of the bronze's, they will school together to an extent and if you want to get 3 of each it ahould be fine. like i said though i still think it would look better to have all the same. your choice though neither is really preferable for the fish, just personal preference.

you need to allow 5 gallons for the angel so count it as 5 inches.

glad your not rushing things, take your time and do your research and you'll find something suitable and have a happy tank

 

[SouthernCross]

I think I'll go with cardinals or rummynoses for my tetras. I've read a few of the threads you mentioned Majjie, and rummynoses seem to rate well with people as a shoaler. I love the look of cardinals, they'd be my first pick, but I don't know whether I'll be able to find some - my LFS only seems to keep neons. I know the neons look similar but I REALLY don't want to see my angel eat them. Neons are really the only ones small enough for angels to eat aren't they? The others would be okay?