Frontosa's

dave_oddballs

ray and oddball keeper !!
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,423
Reaction score
2
Location
lancaster, lancashire, england, uk
hi, i know frontosa's are a hard water fish and like a higher ph but would they be happy at a neutral? ph 7.0.
i want a small group but want to make sure they will be ok first. i don't know how hard or soft my water is but it is ph 7.0 out of the tap, i live in the north west (lancashire) if any one knows about the water hardness around here?
just general info aswel please.
cheers, Dave
 
I keep mine at 8.0 and use a cichlid buffer and salts. You can also use crushed coral, limestone, etc. to raise ph. Do you plan on keeping them in a tank of their own ? It's not really hard keeping the ph a bit higher.
 
If your water is from the same supply as ours here then it is super soft. The Ph in my tanks sits at about 6.4 (7 from the tap) Kh/Gh barely register.
 
MY ph is anywhere between 7.5 and 8 wierd how it changesso much when we're not that far apart!
 
Hi Dave, I recently had 5 fronts, my ph was 7.4 and I managed to raise it to 7.8, but the water isnt to their liking at all, its just not hard enough and as a result, Ive lost 3 in the space of a couple of weeks, likely to lose the other two, I can only put it down to the water hardness/ph because they eat fine, seem ok, but slowly lose colour, go lethargic and then die, whilst all other fish are fine. If you can, you would need to raise it because they just dont do well unless the hardness/ph is high enough for them.
 
the ph is 7.0 out the tap and sits at a constant 7.0 in the tank. I dont know what the hardness is and dont know how to test it or what to test it with, never done it before. Cant raise the ph because of others in the tank.
 
You should be able to get a gh/kh test kit from LFS to test the hardness, but if you cant raise the ph, then I wouldnt try it. They are expensive to lose.
 
I have 3 fronts and I dont mess with my ph (about 7.4) when I did they started to loose colour. Soon as I used normal tap levels they were fine.

Speak to as many breeders as possible and find out the conditions of their fish first. So many are bred now in tanks that most have adapted to the water conditions of their breeder. I would avoid someone who imports them these are the ones you could have problems with.

Another word of warning. There are lots of people at the moment advertising F1 Zaire or Zaire blue or other Zaire lines, these are very expensive and relatively new being imported. Lots of adverts I have been watching have suddenly changed from advertising the Burundi front average price for 1-2" about £6-7 to the Zaire blues 1-2" at an average price of £20!!! at this size you could end up paying over the ods for a Burundi and at 1-2" its impossible to tell them apart.
 
i have in my tank a wild caught syno multipunctatus from tanganiyka, so if thats happy is it possible tank bred fronts will be? there is rays going into the tank and thats why i don't want to mess with the hardness, it has been stable now for a some time, i know the frontosa's my lfs would get would be small and tank bred so obviously not as reliant on exact water parametres as the wilds but i would like to know they would be reasonably happy.
would it be easier to get small frontosa's happy in the tank or older ones? i can get a few 6" ones for £25 each which isn't too bad from what i've seen or a couple of 8" ones, i think they were £40 but i don't want to pay that much if i can help it!
from what the guy at the lfs said i think they would be small fish, maybe a couple of inch's, he was getting me a price dependant on how many he has to order.
im guessing there may be about 20 in a box?? but thats a guess! so if thats the case i would get them all and wait for pairs to form and flog the rest. this is only if i can find out what the params were in the tanks they will be coming from. i will gather as much info as i can before i purchase any, and obviously if they come from a full on tanganiykan set ups then they won't be suitable. i am experienced in fish keeping so i would never be stupid when buying, i only ask as i know of 2 people breeding fonts in water the same as mine ( ph 7.0 but as said i don't know the hardness) but im not sure if they would have been bred and bred in less alkaline water or whether they are just lucky!
i think they would make a great focal point in a tank and i know they are fairly placid as far as large cichlids go which is what interested me to start with.
so what test do i need to get a hardness? obviously once i get it the instructions will tell me how to work results.
i sound stupid now, but i have a massive test kit but only ever use ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and never needed to test for others!
cheers, Dave
 
Fronts dont form pairs, they are hareem mouth brooders, so you'd want 1m to 3/4 females, its always worth a go even if the water isnt exact, I may just have a bad batch, might not be my water, but I know its soft water with no buffering capability apparently, so that may not be helping.
 
yeah but i couldn't just go out and ask for 1 male and 3/4 females from just anyone could i? from what i have read they are hard to sex even at the best of times, males grow the hump but even older females develop a hump so even that method isn't precise. even if i got a group, and they lived happily, how would i know which was male and which was female? even if they bred, unless i watched them 24 hours a day id not know who was who would i? is it the females that hold the fry?
would 1 dominant male chase all of the other males away or do they tolerate each other?
i think i read that the dominant males would only chase off other males that challenge it and tolerating those less dominant males that just tag along so to speak, so in which case how would i then tell the sex's apart?

when i first filled up the tank it was ph 7.0 and was constant until i put in the wood and the almond leaves, to lower the ph for the rays, it went to a constant ph of 6.5, but when i decided to keep the tiger fish i had to bring it back up to 7.0 to have the b est of both worlds. all along whatever i set the ph at it stays constant which is a good thing right? so i can keep it at a constant ph of 7.0 as it is now, but i think if i higher it any more would be unsuitable for the rays.

if the fish (if and when i get them) are small (less than about 3") they will be grown on in a smaller tank first, in which case i could adjust the ph slowly, if i set it at around 8.0 and lower it to 7.0 over 6-8 months until they are big enough to go into the big tank, would tis be a better approach?
this is assuming they are being kept in a higher ph at the moment, this is irrelevant if the fish are already being kept around the 7.0 mark.

if they are small, and obviously an unknown sex, how many would you suggest i start with, to ensure i have a good mix, baring in mind i have plenty of space for them.

so ultimately, pre-hardness test, i am asking if it is possible to keep a group, happily!, in a ph of 7.0 (very stable), with a load of space, there will be rays in there, but im quite confident the rays wouldn't bother them and they wouldn't bother the rays, a tigerfish, which seems quite placid, the arowana which stays at the top really, and the characins which also stay at the top, oh and my fire eel that only comes out when you stick prawns in its face and the syno multipunctatus, which is wild caught and doing extremely well in the tank, if the water was really soft i doubt the syno would be doing too well!

what do you reckan?
 
Oh I know they are unsexable, until they reach a good size, I was just pointing out they dont pair off. Ultimately if you have the space, the larger the group the better to start off with and they are fairly slow growing, so it will be nearly 2 years before they are near breeding age, yes the males will have a more pronounced nuchal hump, but as you say, the females can develop them too. The females will hold the eggs/fry until they are ready to be free swimming and you will know which are holding. In a large enough tank, the dominant male will tolerate the another male and I believe its the dominant females that will cause problems will the lower ranking females. In a 6ft for example, you should be able to keep 2 males and 6-7 females, apparently its a good idea, once you have a male and breeding females, to bring in, from another source different females/male to widen the gene pool so avoid problems, but this is just what Ive read. A really good source of information is a forum called Frontosa.com - http://www.frontosa.com/ and your questions will more likely be better answered there, lots of good information and experienced keepers/breeders there :good:
 
ok, when i find out where they'd be coming from and what stats they have been living with i will get back to you, i think id have to buy a fair few so id definitely have enough for a decent sized group. still thinking about it really but going to see him tomorow so might know a bit more!!
cheers, Dave
 

Most reactions

Back
Top