Four Tetras Dead Just Like That

[Kaidonni]

Long time no post...serious issue. Haven't had any problems with my fish for ages. None whatsoever. Then, lunchtime today, I checked my fish and noticed one of my Rummy Nose Tetras on the gravel, dead. Then another - and another and another. One died - or disappeared completely - a couple of weeks ago. I haven't had any fish die or disappear in well over a year and a half, then suddenly four die.

The tank is well-planted, about 50L. Now, as for fish...I have three Clown Loaches. Yes, I know, bad. Very bad. I got them years ago when I was a lot more ignorant and naive about fish, and had a bigger fish tank also (which burst in 2009, in fact August 2009...), so had to emergency evac. I got more into educating myself, and found out what a mistake I had made. Unfortunately, they've settled in, and my main fear (actually, my parents' - I'm 25, so I should make decisions for myself) is that moving them will stress them out too much and kill them. They've also become rather introverted, where before, especially last Christmas, they didn't want to hide. It got worse when I went on holiday - they only come out now when it is feeding time. It doesn't help that the living room has had a makeover in the way of furniture being replaced. An old sofa used to protect the tank, just an armchair now. Stuck here because I don't know what to do for them - if I have them moved and they die...

I digress. Now I only have those three fish (one is ~4 inches, the other two ~1.5/2) and an old Black Neon Tetra (3 years or more). Ammonia test comes back completely negative (0), nitrates do appear to be in the 20-50ppm range, ph does appear to be approach 8+. Didn't do nitrites. Proper test kit (Nutrafin Test), within the use-by-date, not test strips. I do a 10L water change most weeks, change the filter wool (Fluval filter) every 4-5 weeks, making sure I douse the new one with old tank water I've removed during that particular water change. No problems for ages, now a mass fish death...that hasn't happened to me ever, especially not for tetras.

They appeared...normal. No trauma by the looks of things, perhaps two darkened patches on the one, but apart from that... No fish had any chance to eat them, either, so it must have happened very recently. Not last night for certain.

I did also use Nutrafin Aqua Plus on the water on Tuesday, to make sure the fish were okay. Don't do it everytime, but I *ALWAYS* use it on tap water in the bucket and leave for 24 hours before I replace the water in the tank. I've put 10L for a change tomorrow afternoon, and putting remaining fish on a fasting diet. I feed every other day...it is possible I've overfed, but why did only these four fish die?

 

[KittyKat]

Unfortunately, they've settled in, and my main fear (actually, my parents' - I'm 25, so I should make decisions for myself) is that moving them will stress them out too much and kill them. They've also become rather introverted, where before, especially last Christmas, they didn't want to hide. It got worse when I went on holiday - they only come out now when it is feeding time.

That's silly, the fish won't die from being moved to a bigger home. If fish died from being moved, they would never have made it from the LFS to your house in the first place. If anything, that and getting some friends will make them happier. In the tank they are currently in, they will die before they reach mid-life sort of age.

Fish are much more likely to die if the new tank has an uncycled filter.

change the filter wool (Fluval filter) every 4-5 weeks, making sure I douse the new one with old tank water I've removed during that particular water change

That wouldn't do anything more than pouring tap water over the sponge: the water contains almost no bacteria, the vast majority of bacteria live on filter sponges. Have you been changing 100% of filter wool every time? Or only a small portion of it?

[…] perhaps two darkened patches on the one, but apart from that...

Where on the fish?

I did also use Nutrafin Aqua Plus on the water on Tuesday, to make sure the fish were okay. Don't do it everytime, but I *ALWAYS* use it on tap water in the bucket and leave for 24 hours before I replace the water in the tank. I've put 10L for a change tomorrow afternoon, and putting remaining fish on a fasting diet. I feed every other day...it is possible I've overfed, but why did only these four fish die?

It is unlikely that you overfed if there is no food left at the end of each feeding, especially as you feel only every other day. The Aqua Plus, is it a dechlorinator? Does it deal with chlorine and chloramine? What about ammonia? What is the ammonia reading of the tap water after it has been dechlorinated? What is your nitrite reading?

 

[Kaidonni]

That's silly, the fish won't die from being moved to a bigger home. If fish died from being moved, they would never have made it from the LFS to your house in the first place. If anything, that and getting some friends will make them happier. In the tank they are currently in, they will die before they reach mid-life sort of age.

I've had the one for 6 years and the other two for 5 years, never had anything like White Spot *touches wood*. I've always been worried about them, though... What I need is someone in the West Midlands, Dudley/Wolverhampton area, who would be capable of looking after them. If there is anyone out there...

That wouldn't do anything more than pouring tap water over the sponge: the water contains almost no bacteria, the vast majority of bacteria live on filter sponges. Have you been changing 100% of filter wool every time? Or only a small portion of it?

It's the middle sponge, a wool filter pad. After ~4 weeks, it's no good, fluffing up and breaking apart. I haven't replaced the foam pads, I merely clean the gunk off those. Also, I always douse the new wool in dirty fish water, after cleaning all the gunk off the other pads and sucking the gravel. I pour this stuff over the wool, so whatever has come off the foam pads goes through the wool when I prepare it. I never just suck the water out and douse the wool with it, I make sure the rest of the filter has been cleaned first.

Where on the fish?

The head, towards the dorsal fin. Didn't notice this on the others. Maybe my Black Neon has some speckling on the front of his face (stress?).

The Aqua Plus, is it a dechlorinator? Does it deal with chlorine and chloramine? What about ammonia? What is the ammonia reading of the tap water after it has been dechlorinated? What is your nitrite reading?

Yes, it is. It does deal with Chlorine and Chloramine. Not sure about ammonia, but the ammonia test came up completely negative for the fish tank. I don't usually test the tap water after dechlorination, and haven't done a nitrite test yet.

 

[KittyKat]

That wouldn't do anything more than pouring tap water over the sponge: the water contains almost no bacteria, the vast majority of bacteria live on filter sponges. Have you been changing 100% of filter wool every time? Or only a small portion of it?

It's the middle sponge, a wool filter pad. After ~4 weeks, it's no good, fluffing up and breaking apart. I haven't replaced the foam pads, I merely clean the gunk off those. Also, I always douse the new wool in dirty fish water, after cleaning all the gunk off the other pads and sucking the gravel. I pour this stuff over the wool, so whatever has come off the foam pads goes through the wool when I prepare it. I never just suck the water out and douse the wool with it, I make sure the rest of the filter has been cleaned first.

That should be fine.. you're basically using the other foam as your bio-filter and the wool to polish the water. This is common practice and works if the foam isn't touched.

Where on the fish?

The head, towards the dorsal fin. Didn't notice this on the others. Maybe my Black Neon has some speckling on the front of his face (stress?).

Hmm.. can't help there.

The Aqua Plus, is it a dechlorinator? Does it deal with chlorine and chloramine? What about ammonia? What is the ammonia reading of the tap water after it has been dechlorinated? What is your nitrite reading?

Yes, it is. It does deal with Chlorine and Chloramine. Not sure about ammonia, but the ammonia test came up completely negative for the fish tank. I don't usually test the tap water after dechlorination, and haven't done a nitrite test yet.

I was asking as dechlorinators convert chloramine to ammonia. For example, my tap water is 0 ppm before dechlorinating and 0.25 ppm after.

Also, how old were the fish or for how long did you have them? Were there ever, in their whole lives, any ammonia or nitrite problems with the water?

 

[Kaidonni]

These Rummy Noses I had for just over a year. Hadn't done any test for quite a while, but I'm a keen observer of my fish, and these guys never had any problems at all in that period.

 

[KittyKat]

It's not always possible to physically see the affect of long term exposure to low ammonia levels until the fish is actually dead, for example, although I don't think it that was the cause for the deaths or even a potential problem in the set-up you describe.

What size were they when you bought them and what size when they died?

Is the tank planted?

How many rummy nose tetras did you have in total?

 

[Kaidonni]

I'd say 0.75 inches, pretty much the same size when I bought. I had five in total, alongside my Black Neon Tetra (I actually had three Black Neons remaining when I got the Rummy Noses last year). And yes, the tank is planted. Poor things loved hiding behind those plants and the castle.

 

[KittyKat]

That's unusually small, the fish should have grown to 1.5 - 2.0 inches.. it could have been caused by stress because of being in a small group… but it would be impossible to say that that was definitely the case. I can't think of a concrete reason for your problems.

One explanation for the size may be poor genetics caused by inbreeding.

If you think of replacing them, I would recommend a smaller species so that you can get at least 6 of them.

 

[Kaidonni]

I'm going to get the water sorted out first. If it was pH...it was certainly 8+. In the past, my tests have come out with ~7. I have a change now scheduled for 3PM tomorrow afternoon. I'm keeping a close eye on my Black Neon and Clowns...the latter will probably be ambushing me later for dinner. The Rummy Noses along with the Black Neon always did that at feeding time, patrolling back and forth, waiting for their food.

I do have algae on the glass. Is it possible that poisoned any fish, or am I just looking for things to worry about? There does appear to be some scum on the top of the water, also. I think I've slipped in my maintenance of the tank...

 

[KittyKat]

I'm going to get the water sorted out first. If it was pH...it was certainly 8+. In the past, my tests have come out with ~7. I have a change now scheduled for 3PM tomorrow afternoon. I'm keeping a close eye on my Black Neon and Clowns...the latter will probably be ambushing me later for dinner. The Rummy Noses along with the Black Neon always did that at feeding time, patrolling back and forth, waiting for their food.

I don't think I could possibly emphasise enough how much those clowns need a new home.

I do have algae on the glass. Is it possible that poisoned any fish, or am I just looking for things to worry about? There does appear to be some scum on the top of the water, also. I think I've slipped in my maintenance of the tank...

Normal algae is fine, protein or dust on the surface is also fine, just aim the filter to disturb the surface more.

 

[Tizer]

Bag up the clowns, take em down the local fish shop, if they are nice they may have a spare tank to keep them for you until you can get a bigger tank. Shocking really

Lots of good advice from Kitty, cant really add any more. Gluck.

 

[Kaidonni]

Thanks for all the advice. I thought it might be Neon Tetra Disease, but...just don't know. I'm just going to have to go through a water change and observe carefully. I'm also going to look into all the options for the rehoming of my Clowns, one of my friends from the zoo I used to volunteer at might be able to help out. For the next few days, though, I'm not going to mess any of the fish around. I'm certainly not replacing the lost fish until I know it's safe (shouldn't be too long, but maybe at least a week, if not more, after simultaneously losing four fish all at once - it's not something that happens every day...).

 

[KittyKat]

I'm certainly not replacing the lost fish until I know it's safe (shouldn't be too long, but maybe at least a week, if not more, after simultaneously losing four fish all at once - it's not something that happens every day...).

Realistic quarantine would be at least 6 weeks.. only one week will not be enough if you want to make sure that they don't have anything.

 

[Kaidonni]

Okay then. If that's how long I have to wait, then that's how long I have to wait.