Follow A Noob

[betta_nitrite]

Hi All,

I have been checking this forum for the last 3 weeks for some fantastic advice on freshwater setups. I have recently started trying to keep a tropical tank and although the advice is fantastic it all seems to be directed at specific cases. So I have finally decided to set up this tread to tell you all what my setup is and how its been (not) working!

I know that every fish keeper would prefer that everyone had 100+ gallon tanks with a handful of fish but realistically the tank I have is the biggest I can accommodate until I renovate.

So I have a tiny spot in the quiet corner of a room that doesn't get direct sunlight and is near enough to an electrical outlet to have an air pump without running the risk of the infant child interfering with the electrics(!) Measuring and remeasuring there was simply no way I could fit in the 30l tank I really wanted, so I had to go for the 15l baby biorb (wow I can actually hear your head shaking over the intertubes!).

I took it home and set it up following the instructions to the letter. I then took the moonlight LED lid back to the shop and swapped it out for the halogen light as the perfectly selected corner would only switch it over to 'daylight' mode for about 2 hours in the middle of the day due to indirect light.

I cycled the tank for 10 days using Tetra 6-in-1 sticks to check chlorine and general water quality. All semmed well and I returned to the local aquarium shop with a water sample as requested. They checked my water for me and said it was "perfect" and so they allowed me to take home my beautiful and majestic single red male betta who my 2 yr old named "Basher".

I follwed the instructions to float the bag in my tank, slowly add tank water to the bag etc etc and eventually (and with much excitement) I introduced my first fish to the freedom of my (all be it a little smaller than I had hoped) aquarium.

Then the "fun"(!) started ...

 

[betta_nitrite]

I omitted to mention in the last post that I added stresscoat+ as the dechlorinator for my tap water, and I also added the "start up" for the bacteria that came with the biorb.

All went well for the first week. The test strips showed what I expected, a slow increase in No2 and No3 as the tank really got to grips with having a fish in it. After 7 days I did a 20% water change adding treated tap water that I had left to stand so that it was almost up to the same temperature as the tank. (Introdcued water of 18c into tank of 21c)

I also had been reading various opinions about keeping single bettas and now felt guilty that Basher may be lonely. I did not want to add any more fish into the teeny biorb so finally (with the assistance of another aquarium shop) settled on 2 2inch long bamboo shrimp. I introduced these over a longer period of time as apparently they are easier to shock than fish (at least that's what I was told).

All went well for a further 5-6 days and then my 6-in-1 strips said that it was time to do a water change. So I repeated my 20% water change.... and then things got interesting

 

[betta_nitrite]

I came downstairs in the morning to find my betta was gone!!!

I looked accusingly at my bamboo shrimp but they pointed out that the are not the kind of tankmates that will kill and devour a fish overnight. So I took out the two new silk plants I had added to make Basher and Spot&Strip (the shrimp) happy. then I removed the larger rocks that he could have been hiding behind/under. Nothing. I then removed everything inanimate except the live rocks in the ver bottom around the filter intake. By this time I was exceptionally late for work so had to leave.

I stressed all day and whenever the boss wasn't looking I read numerous websites about disappearing bettas being found dried up behind curtains and shelve units, or they had buried themselves in gravel and died. I could have cried! I knew he couldn't have jumped out as I left the water 3 inches below the top of the tank and there is a lid with the smallest hole ever! So unless he really really wanted to escape (sharkbait broo-ha-ha!) then he couldn't have accidentally leaped to his doom.

I rushed home expecting to find the worst. When I got home there was still no sign of Basher. The two shrimp continued to look guilty but again pointed out they were not to blame. I took a bowl and removed about 3l of water and then began taking out the live rock and putting it into the removed tank water (want to keep that bacteria alive!) I removed piece by piece, slowly and carefully not really wanting to find him as it probably meant he was an ex-betta. 3/4's of the tank media later I finally saw the edge of a red fin poking out of the rocks. I had to walk away and compose myself for the next bit. I got my net and moved the rock on top of him to recover the body, and then leaped out of my skin as he darted from his tomb! He was ALIVE!!!

But he was in a bad way...

 

[betta_nitrite]

After I had finished dancing around for joy I had a good hard look at him. I nearly cried again. His little adventure had taken its toll. The sharp live rocks had put two lon tears into his beautiful tail fin and on the top of his his was a bare white patch where he had clearly rubbed the scales off trying to push free.

He wouldn't swim, he just sat on the bottom and looked very very sad. As I inspected him through the acrylic glass I could see that one of the tears in his tail had crossed 3 'ribs' and was actually acting as a drag to stop him from swimming properly. I just didn't know what to do. There was no way I was going to stress him out any more but trying to mess with his fin, so I left him to calm down and slowly reintroduced the live rock media to keep the bacteria alive.

The next day after a visit to the aquarium store armed with a photo of his injuries, I came away equipped with many many little bottles. I added smooth but still quite large pebbles over the top of the live rock so he couldn't get to the sharp edges but the water could still flow down to the filter. I also had a bottle of esha2000 which the man told me I needed to add to treat the fungal infection he had on his back (the rubbed raw white bit) but asked me to use the master test kit I had bought to make sure the water quality was good first. He said that water quality was more important than anything else.

So I read the manual and then did the tests..
Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0.25ppm
No2 5ppm (!)
No3 10ppm

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHH what happened to my water!!! I did a 50% water change and added extra stresscoat+ as per the instructions for helping to replace slime coat and then had a rather sleepless night.

 

[betta_nitrite]

Now I was worried. I'm thinking I killed a lot of the good bacteria when removing the rocks to look for the missing fish. But I couldn't start again with a fishless cycle as ... well .. I've got a fish!

The next day I rushed home via the aquarium shop (he now loves me $$$$) and picked up some Nite-Out II nitrifying bacteria which he told me to add the the tank to reduce the toxic levels of Nitrite after another 50%water change. I dutifully warmed up 6 litres of water, added stresscoat+ and then the nite-out, removed the biorb filter and all the gunk underneath (I feel I may have also been overfeeding him based on the gunk in there. But siphoning that out and then rinsing the filter sponge in the removed tank water got the majority of the gunk. Replaced the filter, added the fresh water and left it for 2 hours and repeated the test.

Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 5 (!)
Nitrate 40ppm

#136### !?!

 

[TomShootsPhoto]

First, welcome to the Forum

I'd advise you to treat the injuries while treating the water. You need to change the water a lot of times, probably 70% today then 50% tomorrow , slowly minimizing the water change. If you don't treat the injuries first the fish might not have enough time and die, so that's why I think you should do it. I said to treat the injuries "while" you treat the fish, and that is because bad water can also kill your fish.

I really can't give you much advice now, I've got to go, but I'll reply as soon as I can.

 

[betta_nitrite]

The very next day after work I performed another 20% water change (I had forgotten to fill both 3.5 ltr containers so as my tap water is about 4c currently I didn't want to shock him with freezing water as well!) added nite-out and stresscoat+ and decided not to feed him to reduce gunk in tank. Removed the filter and siphoned underneath it, rinsed it, put it back. Marvelled at how the shrimp were still alive in such hostile conditions to bamboo shrimp, felt sad looking at his ripped tail. Almost cried when the siphon picked up a piece of Bashers tail which had finally come off but on the postitive side he was now swimming around again.

Left it 2 hours and then tested the water again

Amm 0.25
No2 5
No3 40

F F S !!!!!

Guess what, the next day a 50% water change and ...

Amm 0.25
No2 5
No3 40

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

I took water to my local aquarium and had him check it as I was now convinced I was doing the test wrong. NOPE, He told me I had a Nitrite spike. He advised more water changes and keep adding nite-out. But as I hadn't treated the fungus and it hadn't gone away he told me to remove the active carbon from the filter and to use the esha2000.

Home again, 50% water change, nite-out, stresscoat+, and now 3 drops of esha2000 ....... is this really good for my fish or simply good for my local aquarium shops takings ?!?!?!


I will test him again today and see what the levels say with a view to another 50% water change, but I had to add some Cyclops ocean nutrition as my shrimp were picking at the bottom of the tank looking for food so I am expecting the levels to remain high. Incidentally one of the shrimp molted overnight. I don't know if that is a good or a bad sign.





....



So this is me, a fish noob with dreams of keeping fish in a way that doesn't get compared to Joseph Mengele (!)

Please feel free to add advice, suggestions, tips... but maybe not too much criticism seeing as I am trying to be a good fish parent, to show my little son how important it is to look after the aquatic world, and to get the money together to finish the renovation which will enable me to fit the 400 litre tank I covet into my currently unuseable dining room. Though if I can't get a biorb right, I think maybe a big tank is beyond me.

 

[fluttermoth]

I agree with Tom; you need to be doing a lot of water changes. You can do multiple water changes each day if necessary, and use some hot water from the tap or kettle to get the new water up to the right temperature.

Your aim with fish in cycles is to keep both the ammonia and nitrite from rising beyond 0.25ppm. I'd recommend you buy a liquid test kit rather than relying on the strips, as they're not very accurate, and often don't test for ammonia which is vital.

You'll have to keep on topping up the amount of meds in the water as well, so make sure your maths is up to scratch!

Oh, and you'll find a larger tank much easier to deal with than a Biorb, as you have more time to catch any toxins before they reach dangerous levels. But I'd recommend a fishless cycle for that tank, when you get it!

 

[betta_nitrite]

I agree with Tom; you need to be doing a lot of water changes. You can do multiple water changes each day if necessary, and use some hot water from the tap or kettle to get the new water up to the right temperature.

Your aim with fish in cycles is to keep both the ammonia and nitrite from rising beyond 0.25ppm. I'd recommend you buy a liquid test kit rather than relying on the strips, as they're not very accurate, and often don't test for ammonia which is vital.

Thanks for the replies. I didn't realise I could do more than one water change a day without stressing the fish out so that's a good tip. Also I have now got a liquid master test kit which is how I got the accurate readings.

Will do a test and change again in a bit and post the water quality again. Good to know a bigger tank is easier - I just wish I had room for one atm.

 

[FishBlast]

I agree with Tom; you need to be doing a lot of water changes. You can do multiple water changes each day if necessary, and use some hot water from the tap or kettle to get the new water up to the right temperature.

Your aim with fish in cycles is to keep both the ammonia and nitrite from rising beyond 0.25ppm. I'd recommend you buy a liquid test kit rather than relying on the strips, as they're not very accurate, and often don't test for ammonia which is vital.

Thanks for the replies. I didn't realise I could do more than one water change a day without stressing the fish out so that's a good tip. Also I have now got a liquid master test kit which is how I got the accurate readings.

Will do a test and change again in a bit and post the water quality again. Good to know a bigger tank is easier - I just wish I had room for one atm.

View attachment 66589

O.O Nice red betta! I hope he recovers fast.

 

[Aqua Tom]

Great advice as usual from our members. You realy need to be doing huge daily water changes. Drain the tank untill the fish can just about swim, then refill. This is a easy thing in a tiny tank.


Tom

 

[jenjen_82]

What's nite-out?

I'm sure u can find somewhere in ur house for a 2ft tank I did lol

 

[TomShootsPhoto]

Have you tought of tanks which stand up vertically?

Like this one for example


My friend has one of these, he has it custom built so it reaches from the bottom to20 cm from sealing so that he can access it. He has a cubed one with the dimensions 40cm x 40cm x 180cm which is 288 liters or so... He has some nice fish in there.

He has gravel with under gravel filter and an external filter which is hidden in a cabinet next to the tank. It's easier to have a hardscape, so it's easier to care for. He never syphoons the tank, some cories do it for him and the additional under gravel filter. The algea is treated by plecos. He got it in the begging of February, it's been up and running pretty great.

 

[onidrase]

Welcome to the forums seems like everyone is giving you some good info, but just felt I should add something else in there, not to be a total jerk and add to your stress levels of the fish in cycle.

The good news is that the bamboo shrimp most definitely will not eat your betta, alive or dead. They are filter feeders, I don't think they could eat a betta if they tried.

the bad news is, your tank is much too small for this particular species of shrimp. They can grow to be quite large; 4 inches in some cases, and like to be in bigger groups than just a pair.

Let's not forget, even if your tank were large enough, that they, unlike bettas, not only like a decent to high water current, but actually rely on a current to eat. They can pluck food off the ground, but this is horribly stressful for them and doesn't give them as much food, and may shorten their lifespan drastically.. This makes them pretty awful tank mates for bettas. I'd highly highly recommend getting a smaller species of shrimp, like amano, cherry, or ghost shrimp instead, and taking the bamboo shrimps back.

 

[betta_nitrite]

Thanks for all the advice. It has really helped.

Jenjen and Tomshoots - I would love a bigger tank but I am renovating a house and I'm pretty sure that plaster dust and paint fumes aren't good for a fish, so until that's done I genuinely don't have the space .. in fact thinking about it he probably has more room to move than I do !!

Jenjen - Nite-out is a nitrifying fluid designed to (allegedly) kick-start / balance / treat tanks that have a poor nitrogen cycling. I say allegedly as I am going by what the guy in the shop and the bottle say!

Onidraise - I bought the shrimp on the advice of the aquarium shop. I wanted ghost or red shrimp but they advised against it saying that the betta will likely eat them, or they will get sucked into the filter. I have tried to help them out by adding "cyclops" which they seem to like and will filter happily from the water, but I don't think they are too happy about all the water changes as it has taken a lot of the 'floating food' out of the tank. I think I agree with you and if they seem to be picking to get food I will take them back to the store.


The good news is that thanks to numerous and extensive water changes (two a day and up to 70% of the water at a time!) I have finally got the levels down in the tank. They haven't stabilised completely but are not as high
PH 7.2
Ammonia 0 to 0,25ppm
No2 0 to 0.25ppm
No3 10 to 20ppm

AND by adding esha2000 for three days, the white patch on his back has almost completely healed up. He has also started growing clear 'skin' in the rips on his fin, so it looks like they are repairing as well. He seems much happier and is swimming around and displaying just like when he first arrived.

I'm going to keep on with the daily water changes with % based on how high the levels are and look at alternative tankmates. I really don't want snails so it might be a case of leaving him on his own for a while whilst I decide on who to add. The tank really is too small for another fish so suggestions are welcomed.

thanks again