Florinaxis

ian

plant your tank
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has anyone used this stuff yet, and intermacweb search doesn't yield a great deal on it. I have just been to get my Easycarbo and there's none in. I'm not the best internet shopper anyway (old fashioned, i know). Anyway they had some of the above in stock, it's an alternative to Excel and Carbo, it works by using the Krebs cycle...i didn't know what it was either until i looked it up. In short, it turns Citric acid into C02. From what i have read regarding this stuff, it does work (not random trials, just first hand accounts). I did buy some, so i'm going to trial it myself. It doesn't contain any of the nasties that are in Carbo/Excell.

for anyone interested here's the Krebs cycle...

krebs_cycle1.gif


so in theory, it should work, right?

I will also work on the dosing in mls as they are using drops on the instructions (in-case the questions arise). This will be used on both of my tanks.
 
has anyone used this stuff yet, and intermacweb search doesn't yield a great deal on it. I have just been to get my Easycarbo and there's none in. I'm not the best internet shopper anyway (old fashioned, i know). Anyway they had some of the above in stock, it's an alternative to Excel and Carbo, it works by using the Krebs cycle...i didn't know what it was either until i looked it up. In short, it turns Citric acid into C02. From what i have read regarding this stuff, it does work (not random trials, just first hand accounts). I did buy some, so i'm going to trial it myself. It doesn't contain any of the nasties that are in Carbo/Excell.

for anyone interested here's the Krebs cycle...

krebs_cycle1.gif


so in theory, it should work, right?

I will also work on the dosing in mls as they are using drops on the instructions (in-case the questions arise). This will be used on both of my tanks.

That picture might as well be in Japanese for what I can make of it :crazy:

If it works though I'll take your word for it (after your trial).

What nasties are in Excel by the way?
 
I'm interested to see if it works. How does it compare price wise to easy carbo/excel?

cheers :good:
 
i added the pic to make myself look clever ;)

Excel and Carbo contains gluteradehyde. Its an industrial disinfectant, this is what gives it it's algaecidal properties. Adehydes are often carcinogenic as well. It's quite nasty!

edit* price wise it's very good, i got 250mls for £8 and you start off with 6 drops per 50 US gallons.
 
well, i wasn't going to update this for a few days, however, my main tank appears to be pearling more so than previous. I am running pressurised C02 on it, i was also dosing Carbo. There definitely more pearling than normal.
 
The more I look at that picture, the less it makes sense! :lol:
 
it turns Citric acid into C02


You cant convert citric acid into CO2. If you look at a full diagram you can see the other compounds involved. Every time one compound is converted to another (via enzymes) it loses a carboxyl group (R-COOH).


Look at the difference of the molecule between Isocitrate & Ketoglutarate
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Citric_acid_cycle_with_aconitate_2.svg


Notice there is a Carbon & 2 Oxygen atoms missing above the middle. This is where the CO2 comes from.
(this is the 'COO' part of the carboxyl group, and notice there is a hydrogen atom attached to one of thr oxygen atoms, which gives you the 'H' part. The rest of the molecule is the 'R' group)



The more I look at that picture, the less it makes sense! :lol:

and that misses out all the other intermediates lol

so in theory, it should work, right?

Yes, makes me wonder if you could just add citric acid to the tank though?
Thanks, Aaron
 
aaahhh, I already thought/read about that one and apparently the compound of Floranaxis is different in someway (sales blurb) this is what makes folranaxis different.

BTW, i'm not seeing any -ve's from this stuff as yet.
 
AHHHHHHH!!!! Kreb's CYCLE! Immediate flashbacks to by cell bio/biochem days in college. I used to know this up and down, back and forth. Could draw and explain the whole thing and was tested on it more than once.

Ill explain in part the best i can (and i might be a little rusty so forgive me if im somewhat inaccurate)

This is a secondary energy production mechanism. When the cell makes energy it starts with a sugar (generally glucose) and thru reaction produces ATP (energy molecule) and pyruvic acid as a bi-product. That pyruvic acid is then further metabolised (chemically broken down) to produce more energy molecules (every ATP or NADH are converted to energy thu oxidation/reduction reaction later-basically all the stuff in the yellow boxes in the reaction are energy molecules which are further oxidized to make energy.). CO2 is produced as bi-product also. The entire reaction is driven my an enzyme Acetyl-COA which forces the reaction to produce citric acid. Really, you cant just "start with" citric acid in the process-you need pyruvic acid with enzymes (Acetyl-COA) and bi-products to keep driving the reaction forward from the beginning (various exchanges of H's and such, intermediate bi-products which are not shown in the diagram reacting and exchanging ions to push the reaction forward). The diagram really is over simplified just to show the products of each stage of the reaction.
dont know if that helped anyone at all, but actually using my education for an applied purpose is fun to try (granted i studied this like 10 years ago-god has it been that long :crazy:
interested to see how the stuff works.
cheers
 
aaahhh, I already thought/read about that one and apparently the compound of Floranaxis is different in someway (sales blurb) this is what makes folranaxis different.

BTW, i'm not seeing any -ve's from this stuff as yet.

TBH it probably wouldn't work, it seems to simple for it not to have been more discussed.

Remember this if for respiration though, not growth, which is more to do with the calvin cycle. Carbohydrates, proteins, fats, lipids etc make up biomass - krebs actually breaks down these to get a usable form of energy.
Think about it in terms of humans, we burn fat for energy so cells can respire. Same thing with plants, so its kind of making the plants burn their energy faster, hence an increase in pearling.
Fixating CO2 is better that producing CO2 (the first thing anyone learns about how plants grow = CO2 + H20 => C6H12O6 + O2), so you might aswell add excel, or raise your pressurised CO2.

ATP is the usable form of energy here. In Calvin cycle it is produced by fixating CO2. In Krebs it is produced by burning biomass.


Thanks, Aaron
 
Is it claiming to stimulate the Kreb's cycle within the tank? Or is it claiming to somehow speed up the biochemical processes within the cells of the plants? With my limited knowledge of the Kreb's cycle (undergrad a few years ago) I an somewhat unsure of how it would work outside of a cell with membranes on which enzymes can rest, and also without the enzymes themselves, but I also am unsure how a water additive could have any impact on the Kreb's cycle in the plants unless it supplies raw pyruvic acid to the cells. THis is unlikely though, since pyruvic acid is a realtively large molecule, which I imagine wouldn't be able to pass through cell membranes (I imagine there isn't a transporter for this molecule since pyruvic acid can be synthesised within the cell from glucose produced by photosynthesis).

In short, as far as I know (limited) the only way to speed up the Kreb's cycle is to speed up photosynthesis.

Anyway, interested to know if it works, essentially if it's a carbon (for photosynthesis) source that is less toxic than excel and easier to manage than yeast bottles or pressurised tanks.
 
heres the complete ingredients...

Citric Acid, sodium citrate, Mg sulfate, Humic acid, fulvic acid, protien hydrolysate and kelp extract.

the blurb from Brightwell

A concentrated source of bioavailable carbon, Krebs cycle intermediates, humic and amino acids, and naturally-occurring phytohormones. ¥ May be used as a primary or supplementary source of carbon (compatible with CO2 supplementation). ¥ Provides key components of the Krebs cycle, the series of biochemical reactions that are ultimately responsible for converting complex organic molecules into energy in all aerobic organisms; benefits are more efficient metabolism of foods and available nutrients for fishes and plants alike, as well as enhanced decomposition of latent organic material (and cleaner aquaria). ¥ Provides naturally-derived sources of humic substances, which aid plants in the uptake of important nutrients such as iron, calcium, magnesium, etc., and can even increase the availability of these substances in the aquarium environment. ¥ Formulated utilizing extensive research on aquatic plant nutrient requirements and Molecular Biology. Technical Overview: As the name implies, FlorinAxis benefits plants in a number of very important and interrelated means: it provides a stable source of carbon (derived from naturally-occurring compounds rather than from preservatives) for direct uptake by plants; it provides key components involved in the Krebs cycle, which enables all aerobic organisms in the aquarium to better utilize available nutrients; it provides humic substances that increase the bioavailability of multivalent cations (such as iron, calcium, magnesium, molybdenum, copper, manganese, zinc, cobalt, and nickel) important to plant health and growth; and it provides phytohormones, natural substances shown to increase the growth and flowering rate of aquatic plants. In essence, FlorinAxis is a unique, extensively-researched formulation that encourages increased health and growth of fishes and plants, as well as encouraging the rapid break-down of latent organic material by aerobic microbes, with the aid of well-documented principles of Biology; it can produce dramatic results in planted aquaria. Ingredients in FlorinAxis provide the following: Citric Acid and Citrate - Organic carbon source and a confirmed stimulator of the Krebs cycle; carbon is required for all organic compounds. Magnesium - Krebs cycle catalyst, component of chlorophyll, required for enzyme activation. Humic and Fulvic Acids - Promote nutrient uptake, stimulate root- and overall-growth, aid in photosynthesis, stimulate plant enzyme production. Kelp - Provides natural phytohormones necessary for plant growth and flowering. Protein Hydrolysate - A source of slow-release nutrients and soluble peptides and amino acids, the building blocks of plant proteins. Instructions and Guidelines: FlorinAxis will help create an environment conducive to long-term plant health and growth; it is part of a complete system for planted aquarium husbandry and is most beneficial when used in conjunction with supplements that provide other necessary nutrients. Water care products that provide a full range of nutrients, such as Brightwell Aquatics FlorinMulti, Florin-K, Florin-Fe, and FlorinGro, should be used as plant requirements in individual aquaria dictate. Shake product well before using. Basic: For the first 3 - 5 weeks of use, add 5 ml (1 capful) of product per 50 US-gallons (189.3 L) of aquarium water once each week; increase dosage thereafter depending upon perceived nutrient needs of plants. Densely-planted aquaria and/or those that enjoy rapid plant growth (such as aquaria with intense lighting and CO2 supplementation) may benefit from more frequent supplementation. When used in this fashion, 250 ml treats up to 2,500 US-gallons (9,464 L). Advanced: Daily, rather than weekly, dosing is recommended; daily dosing maintains a more stable and natural environment than dosing weekly, in which nutrient concentrations spike just after dosing and then gradually decrease throughout the course of the week. To dose daily, add 6 drops per 50 US-gallons per day; adjust dosing volume after 3 - 5 weeks in accordance with appearance of plants and perceived need for nutrients. Carbon supplementation is something that most hobbyists maintaining planted aquaria are interested, if not already engaging, in. The source of carbon in FlorinAxis is taken up by plants as required, which is in contrast to broadcasting CO2 gas throughout an aquarium to act as a carbon source. Because of this, it will take some experimentation on the hobbyistÕs part to determine how much carbon in this form is required by their plants. Hobbyists already employing a CO2 system will see benefits from the addition of FlorinAxis, due to the positive influence it has on the Krebs cycle and on other aspects of plant growth. Because carbon availability is often the limiting factor in plant growth, dramatic results are more likely to be seen in planted aquaria in which no form of carbon supplementation is already employed; regardless, all aquaria can benefit from the formulation and science behind this supplement.

ps I'm also getting pearling HC in my nano (this tank is carbonless)
 
Is it claiming to stimulate the Kreb's cycle within the tank? Or is it claiming to somehow speed up the biochemical processes within the cells of the plants? With my limited knowledge of the Kreb's cycle (undergrad a few years ago) I an somewhat unsure of how it would work outside of a cell with membranes on which enzymes can rest,

Considering Krebs occurs in the matrix of Mitochondria it can only be claiming to speed up the process within the cells surely? It doesn't occur on the surface

Thanks, Aaron
 

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