fishless cycle

[Briarmoor]

I started trying to fishless cycle the 55g about 5 days ago. I did the prescribed amount which ended up being about half a tbsp. Well, at 10% strength one would think that wouldn't be too much. Now after a 30% water change and a 60% water change I still cannot get the ammonia down below 6 which is as high as my test kit goes. I can tell it has come down some because the dip stick is not as dark green as it was at first. I tested for nitrites, etc and there was zilch 2 days ago. I seeded with some gravel frommy cycled 10g in a net behind one of the new filters but I guess that wasn't enough. I also added to prescribed amount of StressZyme and used dechlorinator in the water that wouldn't effect ammonia. After the last water change, I added several live plants in pots and without pots. I am hoping they can help the situation.

What am I doing wrong and will lugging more buckets back and forth cure this? I am getting really tired!

P.

 

[GeffG81]

If you are very impatient like I was, Biospira works quickly to help cycle the tank. Its supposed to be the only proben method to speeding up a cycle. Costs around $10 for a bag that is good for up to 30 gallons. It has worked for me and many others.

 

[rdd1952]

I would do one more large water change (75 to 80 percent) to get the ammonia down below 5 and then test again. Rather than adding by the spoonful, I would just add a few drops with a medicine dropper, wait about 5 minutes for the filter to circulate it and test again. Once you get it to about 5 or 6 ppm, you are done for the time being.

It should take about a week for the ammonia to drop. During that time, you don't need to do anything other than test the ammonia daily. Once it drops back to zero, add enough ammonia to raise it to about 1 or 2 ppm and start testing for nitrites. Everytime the ammonia drops back to zero, add to 1 to 2 again. You have to continue to feed the bacteria you have already developed or they will die and you will have to start over.

The nitrite takes the longest to drop and there is a reason for that. When the ammonia was cycling, you weren't adding to it daily so the bacteria weren't being hit with more and more ammonia daily. In the case of nitrite though, you are adding it every time you add more ammonia and it is transformed into nitrite. The nitrite will definitely go off the test chart you have but that isn't a problem since you don't have any fish. After about a week, test your nitrates. Hopefully, you will start to see some showing up. By the time the nitrite drops, the nitrates will also be off the chart.

A good rule of thumb (or at least it seemed that way on the tanks I have fishlessly cycled) is that the nitrite will take about twice as long as the ammonia to drop. Once the nitrite drops to zero, do a 90% water change to get rid of the nitrates and you are ready to add your fish - at least 75% up to 90% of your full stocking level. If you can't add them immediately, keep adding ammonia every day until the day before you get your fish.

There are 2 things that you need to do to aid and speed the cycling. First, turn the heater up into the mid to upper 80s and second, add extra aeration via airstones (best) or if you have HOB filters, leaving the water level down wnough to get a substantial splash as the water enters the tank (cheaper alternative).

 

[boxman]

I haven't fully read your responses but 5 days to get most of your levels down is pretty good - I would give yourself a bit more time as mine has been cycling for nearly 2 weeks and I've still got high nitrate.

Not to go against anything anyone has said but I would just try patience - 10 days is the fastest cycle I've experienced so to get to that stage you've done well!

Good luck

 

[gadazobe]

5 days for a 55 gallon tank is nothing - it will take a couple of weeks at least to cycle a tank that size.

 

[rdd1952]

The only reason I suggested another water change and basically starting over is that it sounds like he got way to much ammonia in to start. If she has already done a 30% WC and a 60% WC and STILL has ammonia readings of over 6 ppm, he needs to get to the point that he knows how much ammonia is in the tank. As for patience, that is a must. I would think 3 weeks is about the norm for a non-seeded tank but it could be more or less.

 

[Briarmoor]

The only reason I suggested another water change and basically starting over is that it sounds like he got way to much ammonia in to start. If he has already done a 30% WC and a 60% WC and STILL has ammonia readings of over 6 ppm, he needs to get to the point that he knows how much ammonia is in the tank. As for patience, that is a must. I would think 3 weeks is about the norm for a non-seeded tank but it could be more or less.

Yes, yes, what rdd said. I put too much ammonia in to begin with and despite a 30% and 60% water change, still have readings too high for what is called for. I was hoping the added plants would help get the reading down without me having to lug more buckets!

Okay, I will start lugging buckets this afternoon after I move the fish in the 10g to the 20g and get that all sorted out. My poor dogs are feeling neglected, I spend all my time hauling water back and forth.

Q: How much do you think the live plants will help in bringing bacteria in to the tank? The StressZyme just isn't helping that much. I may try the Bio stuff someone listed in the above posts. Did you use *just* that or did you seed from an old tank also? I think bringing in a plant from the LFS helped cycle my 10g faster, it only took about 3.5 weeks but I didn't know better and had fish in it. They survived, but I want to spare them if possible in future tanks.

I am wanting to make sure that it wasn't the seeding that cycled your tank so fast. I am willing to be patient in doing this, but don't want to be sitting around if the high ammonia isn't going to go down by itself or help get any bacteria going because it is way more than is needed and maybe even killing off the bacteria. Thanks, guys!

P.

 

[rdd1952]

I tried Stress Zyme once (thought I was buying Stress Coat and got it by accident) simply because I had it. I couldn't tell that it speded things up any at all. Bio Spira, from what i have heard, works very well but only if you get it from a reputable source that has kept it properly refigerated. Also with Bio Spira, you add the fish ant the Bio SPira at the same time. No such thing as a fishless cycle with it. The plants can have varying effects. If the plant is very heavily lanted, you can add some fish right off as the plants will help process the ammonia and prevent any problems. As for seeding a tank, that will always help (as long as the seed is from a healthy tank with no disease.

 

[Briarmoor]

Okay, I have changed 80% of the water and my ammonia is still high, over 6 it looks like. How can I change that much water out and still have those levels?

I don't know what else to do at this point. I checked for nitrites and nitrates last night and there were some, about .25 or less of nitrite, just enough to color the pad. It is no longer white. Nitrate was only slightly pink, but there is a small presence. This may be from the plants I added. I put some netted substrate in yesterday from the cycled 10g in hopes that would help. Nitrate in that water was around 40 and nitrite zero. There is some smell from the filter with the netted substrate from 5 days ago, wonder if this means some bacteria are building?

At this rate, even if the bene bac can build up with the high ammonia levels, will the ammonia ever come down? Will the bene bac from the plants and substrate survive the high ammonia levels? Why is it staying so high? Is the ammonia down in the gravel? What do I do? Everything in the tank and the tank itself are new.

P.

 

[rdd1952]

The ammonia will definitely come down as soon as enough bacteria can build and grow. Since the ammonia is so high, it may take a little longer. SInce you are seeing some nitrites, your tank is at least starting to cycle. Just be patient.

 

[Briarmoor]

The ammonia will definitely come down as soon as enough bacteria can build and grow. Since the ammonia is so high, it may take a little longer. SInce you are seeing some nitrites, your tank is at least starting to cycle. Just be patient.

Okay, I will try to be patient. I just read somewhere that if the ammonia was too high it could kill the benebac. Have you heard this?

Do you think it is normal for that much water to have been changed and the level to stay the same? That just seems weird.

Can the ammonia get "locked" in the gravel and that be the reason the water changes are not working?

I just want to make sure I am not sitting idly by while nothing is happening.

P.

 

[rdd1952]

There is water left in the gravel each time you do a water change that contains ammonia. It does seem odd that you have done that many changes and still have such a high reading. Give it about a week and check for nitrites too. If the nitrites are appearing and starting to rise, then your tank is cycling properly. If you aren't seeing any nitrites in a week, then there's a problem. I'm almost wondering if you have a faulty ammo test kit.

 

[Briarmoor]

I was kinda hoping I had a faulty ammonia test kit too! But I tried it in the 20g and it had zero ammonia, so darn it, the strips work.

The ammo is coming down some, not enough to add any. Nitrites are about 2.0 and nitrates are about 20 which is the same as yesterday's figures. Funny how cycling messes with the pH. Cichlids would love this tank right now (well, minus the ammo).

I am trying to be patient! The bubbles and swaying plants sure are pretty to look at. Someday there will be pretty fish to look at too.

P.

 

[rdd1952]

If you have nitrites at 2.0 then your tank is definitely cycling. Don't add any more ammonia until it drops back to zero and then just add enough to raise it back to about 1 to 2 ppm. Everytime it drops back to zero, bump it back up to 1 to 2 again and keep checking the nitrites. When they finally drop to zero, you are cycled. As for the pH, I wouldn't waste my test kit on checking it until your nitrites drop to zero and you do the big water change. The proesence of ammonia and nitrite both have big effects on pH so the reading are indicative of what your true pH will be.

 

[MaDDog1281]

The way my tank got started so quickly is this. The guy from the fish store I shop at squeezed a sponge from an established tank into a bag and he told me to dump it in my tank. In a week and a half I was set. Also a 55g tank. I didn't use any other chemicals beside stress coat for the chlorine and chloramine. Stress zyme may or may not help out at all. Depending on how long the bottle sat on the shelf. If it sat for too long, everything inside could have died which wouldn't help at all. Hope that this helps. Patience is also a big thing. Don't rush into things because it will just hurt things. Good luck.