Fishless Cycle Stats

[**sarahp**]

I have been cycling for about a week now with Bactinettes and all is going well but I do have a coupla questions.

1 - The ammonia and NitrIte levels are dropping rapidly now everytime I put ammonia in, eg Ammonia from 8ppm to 1ppm in 8 hours. I am going to let it get to zero today then right back up to 6ppm to time how long it takes to drop back to zero! NitrIte is doing the same BUT my nitrAte levels have not increased beyond that of my tap water. My tank is heavily live planted - is this the reason for the nitrAtes staying so low or do I have a problem??

2 - As the ammonia is dropping so quickly I am replenshing twice a day 20 mls at a time. Would I be ok to just dump 40 mls in in the morning? Also if ammonia does drop to zero - how long can it be at zero without the bacteria starving? Dont want to kill 'em off having worked so hard to get 'em

3 - finally, all my lovely lush green (and red!) plants that I bought from Greenline have all turned a bit of a mushy brown Is that justa reaction to the different water parameters between me and greenline or have I done something wrong??

Fankoo

 

[CruX]

I have been cycling for about a week now with Bactinettes and all is going well but I do have a coupla questions.

1 - The ammonia and NitrIte levels are dropping rapidly now everytime I put ammonia in, eg Ammonia from 8ppm to 1ppm in 8 hours. I am going to let it get to zero today then right back up to 6ppm to time how long it takes to drop back to zero! NitrIte is doing the same BUT my nitrAte levels have not increased beyond that of my tap water. My tank is heavily live planted - is this the reason for the nitrAtes staying so low or do I have a problem??

Plants can absorb some Nitrates but I would expect to see a reading a little higher

2 - As the ammonia is dropping so quickly I am replenshing twice a day 20 mls at a time. Would I be ok to just dump 40 mls in in the morning? Also if ammonia does drop to zero - how long can it be at zero without the bacteria starving? Dont want to kill 'em off having worked so hard to get 'em

Good question, I can't answer all of it but the bacteria in filter media can survive a few hours in a bucket of water so at least a few hours could be the right answer. Sorry not much help there. I don't know how good it would be to dump 40 mils in either, what will that take you up to in PPM?


It sounds like you are not far from being cycled. I was very lucky with my cycle as I got a kick start with mature filter media and I have used mature media for every tank sinse.

 

[rdd1952]

First, if the tank is heavily planted, its quite likely that the plants are using the ammonia rather than it being processed by the bacteria. That could account for the lack of nitrate. Are you seeing the nitrite rise and fall after adding ammonia? If the plants are using the ammonia, then you probably wouldn't see any nitrite. Another possibility is that you have some type nitrate sponge or media in your filter that is removing the nitrate mechanically. But if that were the case, it should remove what is in the tap water too.

Second, I wouldn't add the double dose of ammonia. If the bactria are processing it, you don't want to overload them. You have several hours before you star to see any noticable die-off. I have accidentally left my filter off for 10 to 12 hours a couple times and seen no mini cycle or effect from it so I would say at least 24 hours would be safe provided the filter is drying out.

 

[Rooster]

I have been cycling for about a week now with Bactinettes and all is going well but I do have a coupla questions.

1 - The ammonia and NitrIte levels are dropping rapidly now everytime I put ammonia in, eg Ammonia from 8ppm to 1ppm in 8 hours. I am going to let it get to zero today then right back up to 6ppm to time how long it takes to drop back to zero! NitrIte is doing the same BUT my nitrAte levels have not increased beyond that of my tap water. My tank is heavily live planted - is this the reason for the nitrAtes staying so low or do I have a problem??

2 - As the ammonia is dropping so quickly I am replenshing twice a day 20 mls at a time. Would I be ok to just dump 40 mls in in the morning? Also if ammonia does drop to zero - how long can it be at zero without the bacteria starving? Dont want to kill 'em off having worked so hard to get 'em

3 - finally, all my lovely lush green (and red!) plants that I bought from Greenline have all turned a bit of a mushy brown Is that justa reaction to the different water parameters between me and greenline or have I done something wrong??

Fankoo

1. It can take a couple of MONTHS to cycle ... not a lots going to happen in a week, because of the plants - your tests are going to be all over the place !

2. Just keep adding the same amount each day, but test every other day - watched kettle, and all that. (Add the ammonia AFTER the test, and try to stick to the same times)

3. You have dropped a living thing into a sterile environment - of course the plants are dying ! Add some ferts, or remove them to a more "plant friendly" place. I would always advise that its best to do a fishless cycle without plants (sorry !)

 

[CruX]

I have been cycling for about a week now with Bactinettes and all is going well but I do have a coupla questions.

1 - The ammonia and NitrIte levels are dropping rapidly now everytime I put ammonia in, eg Ammonia from 8ppm to 1ppm in 8 hours. I am going to let it get to zero today then right back up to 6ppm to time how long it takes to drop back to zero! NitrIte is doing the same BUT my nitrAte levels have not increased beyond that of my tap water. My tank is heavily live planted - is this the reason for the nitrAtes staying so low or do I have a problem??

2 - As the ammonia is dropping so quickly I am replenshing twice a day 20 mls at a time. Would I be ok to just dump 40 mls in in the morning? Also if ammonia does drop to zero - how long can it be at zero without the bacteria starving? Dont want to kill 'em off having worked so hard to get 'em

3 - finally, all my lovely lush green (and red!) plants that I bought from Greenline have all turned a bit of a mushy brown Is that justa reaction to the different water parameters between me and greenline or have I done something wrong??

Fankoo

1. It can take a couple of MONTHS to cycle ... not a lots going to happen in a week, because of the plants - your tests are going to be all over the place !

2. Just keep adding the same amount each day, but test every other day - watched kettle, and all that. (Add the ammonia AFTER the test, and try to stick to the same times)

3. You have dropped a living thing into a sterile environment - of course the plants are dying ! Add some ferts, or remove them to a more "plant friendly" place. I would always advise that its best to do a fishless cycle without plants (sorry !)

Just to clarify for her, will the Bactinettes do anything? I was shocked to see the ammonia levels dropping so fast but as rdd1952 said the plants could be taking it in, which I didn't know until I read another thread about it afterwards. Also, if the plants are out competing the filter bacteria for ammonia will the tank ever cycle, and could that account for her faster readings in a week?

 

[rdd1952]

3. You have dropped a living thing into a sterile environment - of course the plants are dying ! Add some ferts, or remove them to a more "plant friendly" place. I would always advise that its best to do a fishless cycle without plants (sorry !)

I don' t think the plants are dying so much as it the normal brown algae that comes with every fishless cycle I've ever done. If you can take your fingers ans wipe it of the leaves then it is algae. Obviously, if the leaves themselves are turning brown then they are dying. Also, a lot of pet stores sell plants for aquariums that aren't true aquatic plants. They do need lots of water and are found around ponds and streams but can't love totally submerged. General rule is that if ithas varigated leaves, it is not a true aquatic plant.

Also, if the plants are out competing the filter bacteria for ammonia will the tank ever cycle, and could that account for her faster readings in a week?

Yes and no. You probably have been reading the other thread about nitrate levels and plants using ammonia before it can be converted. In a very heavily planted, lightly (even normally) stocked tank it is indeed quite possible that the nitifying bacteria colony is extremely small to non-existent (if there is a filter running, there will definitely be some). The plants will use the vast majority of ammonia before the filter processes it. In this case, you might say that the filter isn't cycled but the tank is because the ammonia is being processed which is the key. Removing all of the plants suddenly would cause a problem as then the filter would have to take over and not have enough bacteria to handle the waste thus causing a mini cycle.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

In response to question 3...

What kind of lighting are you using? How many "watts per gallon...aka WPG" do you have (total wattage of the florescent lights divided by number of gallons)? Brown algae thrives in low light situations, and red true aquatic plants require a lot of light! On average you want about 2-3 WPG.

I disagree with the idea of ditching the plants to cycle. If you heavily plant a tank you can add a few fish right away because the tank cycles "silently"...i.e. the plants act as the biological filter until the filter media builds up a good colony. We just usually don't recommend it for people new to the hobby because plants add another level of difficulty. If the plants are dying due to not enough light or other reasons...then yes ditch the light hungry plants and cycle fishless. If the brown is just diatoms, and all the plants are true aquatics...then quit with the ammonia dosing and get a FEW fish. You'd still need to check the water parameters daily, and you'd have to be very careful about removing plants (i.e. be able to replace them asap).