Fish Tank Hell: Bacteria Bloom - White Spot - Ammonia High.....

[nozone]

Hi all,

I have been going through a bit of a crisis and it's getting the better of me, let me explain:

I purchased a new tank about 3 months ago, set it up and slowly introduced fish a few weeks later over a period of about 6-8 weeks. The tank details are as follows:

Tank Size: 126 Litres.

Pumps: FLUVAL 3 (internal filter with pads), FLUVAL 305 (external filter with medium chambers and pads).

Fish: 1 small Gibbiceps, 2 small angle fish, 4 neon tetras, 5 guppys, 1 young golden grommie, 2 young dwarf grommies and 2 silver dollars.

Fatalities so far: 2 small Clown Loaches, 1 small Angle Fish.

Until two weeks ago, all was going well, water levels were nice and I thought all was fine. Then all hell broke out (possibly due to over populating too fast or possible over feeding, maybe both).

Anyway, my fish appeared to have white spot, thus I followed a friend’s advice right away and started treating them. The white spot cleared up on all but three fish after a couple of days (the clown loaches and one angle fish). Thus I have continued the treatment, and then a clown loach died. I removed the dead fish and continued things as normal, but then a water test showed ammonia levels on the quick rise as well as nitrate and nitrite, thus 2 plants were introduced to the tank and ammo-lock to lock away the nasty ammonia while treating it (apparently safe to use with white spot treatment together). I then waited another day to see how the ammonia levels were, and they were way bad, thus I introduced a second filter and ammo chips (apparently also safe to use together), where I also left my old filter in of course, as I don’t want to remove good bacteria. I waited another couple of day and continued to use ammo lock while ammonia levers were way high. Since then, I have lost the second clown loach and one angle fish (not the one with bad white spot though, its still alive).

Anyway another day or two passed and the time came for the weekly water change (this was yesterday), this I done about a 20% change and cleaned the gravel. About 1 hour later, the tank was extremely cloudy (milky grey, not green). Reading about this, it sounds like bad bacteria bloom. Late last night, the tank was so cloudy; it was almost impossible to see the back of the tank (can just see the heater light). Waking up this morning, the talk was exactly the same and I have noticed my dwarf grammies and looking weak.

Please can someone come to my rescue and let this nightmare end. I don’t want to go to the store and buy yet another chemical, as I feel this is probably not good for the fish to keep filling the tank with junk. Can I have some guidance please?

Notes: I have been doing roughly a 20% water change weekly, I have not been replacing filter pads (just giving them a rinse), I have reduced feeding for the past couple of weeks and I have been using safe tap treatment to water and letting it site for a day or two before introducing to the tank.

Thanks.

Steven.

 

[confusion]

The problem is that it seems you've done something that's killed off your bio filter. Your tank is cycling. Here is what I would do:

perform a large water change - 80% to 90%. That will get the ammonia/nitrites down.

Stop all feeding

No more chemicals for the moment


Decide how to restore your bio filter.
- you can go through the cycle again, but you'll have to feed very sparingly and do lots of water changes
- you can use something like bio spira
- you can try to get some filter media/gravel from an established tank

In any event, the large water changes are what will save the rest of your fish, IMO.

When you clean the filter pads, are you using tap water? It's possible that's what killed the bio filter.

Good luck.

 

[breezer40]

Clown loaches can be a little fragile when meds are used so that doesn't supprise me. What medications did you use? Some are known for destroying the bacteria in the filter.

I would recommend that you do daily water changes of 30%. Remember this saying.."The solution to polution is dilution" Keep testing the water daily. Ammo-lock actually converts Ammonia which is very toxic and extremly uncomfortable for the fish into a non-toxic form but will give you false readings when testing the water. The cloudy water does sound like you are having a bacterial bloom.

Do you know anyone that has an established filter that you could squeeze some bacteria from? You could help the new filter along by dipping the sponges in this?

Hope this helps

 

[nozone]

No, I clean the pads in the bucket of tank water I have just removed from the tank.

How would I safely change 90% of the water? The filters would not be submerged and the bacterial will surely consume all oxygen fairly promptly.

When adding water, I have to treat it before introducing it to the tank and let it sit for about a day, how to I overcome this also?

Getting gravel from a tank is not an option, unfortunately, I don't know anyone else with a tropical tank currently active.

Thanks for you help!

I don't know anyone with a tank, thus I cannot get assistance in this way.

 

[breezer40]

You don't need let water sit if you are using a delorinator. The idea of letting water sit for 24hrs was used when all we had in the water was clorine. After 24 hrs this disapears. Now water companies are addling chloramine which will still be there no mater how long you let the water sit and can only be removed by a declorinator that states it also removes chloramine.

I do agree 90% is way too much to change and smaller more frequent water changes are a much better idea. Just make sure the water you are adding is the same temp as the water you are taking out. If you have a combi boiler (water doesn't sit in the pipes) then add water from the hot water tap to warm it..otherwise a kettle is fine.

Might be worth asking your local fish store if they will let you have a squeeze from their filters. I always let the customers at the shop I work at do this if they are having problems.

 

[nozone]

You don't need let water sit if you are using a delorinator. The idea of letting water sit for 24hrs was used when all we had in the water was clorine. After 24 hrs this disapears. Now water companies are addling chloramine which will still be there no mater how long you let the water sit and can only be removed by a declorinator that states it also removes chloramine.

I do agree 90% is way too much to change and smaller more frequent water changes are a much better idea. Just make sure the water you are adding is the same temp as the water you are taking out. If you have a combi boiler (water doesn't sit in the pipes) then add water from the hot water tap to warm it..otherwise a kettle is fine.

Might be worth asking your local fish store if they will let you have a squeeze from their filters. I always let the customers at the shop I work at do this if they are having problems.

Thanks! I will do this......hopefully they won't all die!

 

[d3tained]

Hi,

The 90% water change is not reguler its aimed at your current situation being high toxic levels.Its just to releave the tank and fish.

If you are not willing to do 90% then atleast do a 50% and a hour later a 50% again.

After this your levels should be low and you can start to focus on what casued this problem.

 

[nozone]

Hi,

The 90% water change is not reguler its aimed at your current situation being high toxic levels.Its just to releave the tank and fish.

If you are not willing to do 90% then atleast do a 50% and a hour later a 50% again.

After this your levels should be low and you can start to focus on what casued this problem.

Are you sure, 50% seems like a lot?

Also, without getting friendly bacteria, from another filter, how can I aid the cycle along so that my fish don't all die in the rebuilding of it?

Thanks so much for the help peeps!

 

[confusion]

Here's the deal.... let's say your nitrites are at 4. If you do a 30% change, you're nitrites will be at 2.8. In fact, it will take 11 30% water changes to get your nitites under .1. It would only take 2 80% or 90% changes. I don't advocate doing that all the time, but for this situatiion, it's your best bet.

You're not going to adversely affect your filter for the 15 or 20 minutes it takes to drain the tank and refill it. If you're using dechlor, there isn't a need to let it set over night. In any event, you can't do much to damage your bio filter, since it's already dead.

When I had to do this earlier in the year, I would drain the tank down to a point where the fish had just enough water so they we're having to lay on their sides.

Anyhow, you can certainly do the lower percentage water changes, but it's going to take a lot more of them, and you'll need to do them back to back to back in order to prevent more fish from dying.

 

[d3tained]

Do as Confusion stated and then you will be fine.Once you know your levels is down you can spend more time thinking on what the problem is rather then if your fish is going to die.

Also visit your LFS and ask for the bacteria if they have any, alos buy a product from them its made by Waterlife and its called somthing zyme, not stress zyme but bacteria stuff.I used it and it works wonders to get your filters kick started again.

 

[nozone]

Do as Confusion stated and then you will be fine.Once you know your levels is down you can spend more time thinking on what the problem is rather then if your fish is going to die.

Also visit your LFS and ask for the bacteria if they have any, alos buy a product from them its made by Waterlife and its called somthing zyme, not stress zyme but bacteria stuff.I used it and it works wonders to get your filters kick started again.

Ok, that’s fine, but can this be used while my tank is still showing signs of white spot? Two of my fish are still showing symptoms.

How do I transport the bacteria? Will it die if not transported fast?

Thanks again, this help is really appreciated!

 

[confusion]

You won't be able to do much with the ich until you have the ammonia and nitrite under control. Delaying the treatment isn't going to make a lot of difference. The ammonia and nitrite are most certainly causing your fishes' immune systems to not fully function, and therefore they are quite susecptible to disease like ich.

Once you have the ammonia and nitrite under control, and are able to keep it under control, then start combating the ich. If you do the several 80-90% pwc' and have the levels very low, only feed a little every other day, and start perfroming 30-50% daily pwc's to keep the level's low, you'll have much better luck treating the ich. I've found that the salt + heat method works well, but it takes some time. Fighting two wars in a tank at the same time is always tricky. If you do the salt + heat while you're cycling, you have to keep adding salt to the new water, and match the higher temp. The smaller, less frequent feedings are going to be a problem because the fishes' metabolism runs faster at the higher temps, and hence they need more food (and produce more ammonia). Which is why it would be most ideal to get some bateria from a store or friend or member of this forum.

As far as transporting the bateria, I suspect that it will last a little longer than most people think. Save some of your currnet tank water with high ammonia and nitrites and you can take that to the store/friend's house and carry the gravel or filter media home in that water, which will give it something to eat on the trip home.

One thing I noticed, and haven't been able to find any supporting evidence for is that extra high levels of ammonia and nitrite seem to actually suppress the growth or function of the nitrogen reducing bacteria during the initial cycling phase. Hence, keeping the levels lower, but not zero, actually helps the cycle happen faster. Just my experience - maybe it will help you, maybe not.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Do as Confusion stated and then you will be fine.Once you know your levels is down you can spend more time thinking on what the problem is rather then if your fish is going to die.

Also visit your LFS and ask for the bacteria if they have any, alos buy a product from them its made by Waterlife and its called somthing zyme, not stress zyme but bacteria stuff.I used it and it works wonders to get your filters kick started again.

Ok, that’s fine, but can this be used while my tank is still showing signs of white spot? Two of my fish are still showing symptoms.

How do I transport the bacteria? Will it die if not transported fast?

Thanks again, this help is really appreciated!

You have three problems in your tank that need adressing;

1. Cycling tank conditions/new tank sydrome.
2. Bacterial bloom.
3. Whitespot.

a. Reducing stocking right now would help considerably in dealing with your water quality issues, have you read the article on avoiding and treating new tank syndrome? Here is the link;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

This article should help explain your situation in a straightforward and informative mannor.
Small water changes with dechlorinator are the best for getting rid of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (nitrates are not a problem though for most fish as long as they are 40 or under).

Test your water quality on a daily basis, if you see any ammonia or nitrites, do a 30% water change. I would not personally advise taking out more than 60% of water per day unless the situation is dire (like ammonia or nitrites 4-5 or more), but even so if you have to do this is best to do two separate 30% water changes at different points in the day rather than one huge 60 or more % water change.
I would not advise using chemicals or anything like to lower nitrites or ammonia as these may mess up or prolong the cycling process which is not good.

As i have said though, if could you rehome some of your fish back to the lfs (local fish store) you got them from, it will considerably help control the water quality problems, which will be good for all the fish left in the tank as there will be less stress on the tanks bioload at this unstable stage in the tanks maturity.
Rehoming the more fragile types of fish like neon tetras and angel would be for the best .

Increasing aeration will be bennificial for all fish as it will ease their stress in coping with the water quality problems- adding an extra filter or air stone would be very good.


b. + c. The problem you have with these two is that they are treated best in different ways. Most people advise increasing tank temp to 29-30 degrees in the situation of whitspot as it helps speed up the parasites life cycle, making it easier to treat- this article should help explain what whitespot is and how it works;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=128879

However raising the temp will make it harder for the fish to deal with the bacterial bloom. Oxygen disolves less at warmer temps, so adding extra aeration is a must right now if you are to deal effectively with ridding the tank fo whitespot and the bacterial bloom.
Making sure there are no rotting plants in the tank and that the fish aren't being fed too much will help in dealing with the bloom. Regular daily water changes will help getting rid of the water quality problems, bacterial bloom and lowering whitspot levels in the tank.
When dealing with whitespot you should continue to treat the fish for at least 2 weeks after the spots have disapeared and not buy any fish for at least a further week after that. It would also be wise to avoid buying fish until your ammonia and nitrite levels have settled down to at least 0 for 2 weeks.

So basically, my advise to you to dealing with your tank issues is;
a. Increase aeration in the tank as much as you can- air stones, extra filtration etc.
b. Rehome as many of your current fish as you are willing to let go of (as long as you leave some fish left of course)- i would strongly advise rehoming the neons in particular as these fish are not likely to make it through the cycle.
c. Test water quality on a daily basis for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
d. Do daily 30-60%+ water changes with dechlorinator to help get rid of the bacterial bloom, lower whitespot levels and deal with the water quality issues.
e. Gradually raise the temp to 29 degree's (like by one of two degrees a day) to help speed up the whitespot parasites life cycle so meds can start treating it ASAP.
f. Treat the tank for the needed length of time with a good whitespot med (when you do water changes, remember to replace the meds losts through such things).




Edit: i was just wondering, do you know anyone with a mature tank or pond with mature filtration? If so, it may be posible to clone your tank which would help considerably in dealing with the cycling tank issues .

 

[nozone]

Do as Confusion stated and then you will be fine.Once you know your levels is down you can spend more time thinking on what the problem is rather then if your fish is going to die.

Also visit your LFS and ask for the bacteria if they have any, alos buy a product from them its made by Waterlife and its called somthing zyme, not stress zyme but bacteria stuff.I used it and it works wonders to get your filters kick started again.

Ok, that⦣8364;™s fine, but can this be used while my tank is still showing signs of white spot? Two of my fish are still showing symptoms.

How do I transport the bacteria? Will it die if not transported fast?

Thanks again, this help is really appreciated!

You have three problems in your tank that need adressing;

1. Cycling tank conditions/new tank sydrome.
2. Bacterial bloom.
3. Whitespot.

a. Reducing stocking right now would help considerably in dealing with your water quality issues, have you read the article on avoiding and treating new tank syndrome? Here is the link;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

This article should help explain your situation in a straightforward and informative mannor.
Small water changes with dechlorinator are the best for getting rid of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (nitrates are not a problem though for most fish as long as they are 40 or under).

Test your water quality on a daily basis, if you see any ammonia or nitrites, do a 30% water change. I would not personally advise taking out more than 60% of water per day unless the situation is dire (like ammonia or nitrites 4-5 or more), but even so if you have to do this is best to do two separate 30% water changes at different points in the day rather than one huge 60 or more % water change.
I would not advise using chemicals or anything like to lower nitrites or ammonia as these may mess up or prolong the cycling process which is not good.

As i have said though, if could you rehome some of your fish back to the lfs (local fish store) you got them from, it will considerably help control the water quality problems, which will be good for all the fish left in the tank as there will be less stress on the tanks bioload at this unstable stage in the tanks maturity.
Rehoming the more fragile types of fish like neon tetras and angel would be for the best .

Increasing aeration will be bennificial for all fish as it will ease their stress in coping with the water quality problems- adding an extra filter or air stone would be very good.


b. + c. The problem you have with these two is that they are treated best in different ways. Most people advise increasing tank temp to 29-30 degrees in the situation of whitspot as it helps speed up the parasites life cycle, making it easier to treat- this article should help explain what whitespot is and how it works;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=128879

However raising the temp will make it harder for the fish to deal with the bacterial bloom. Oxygen disolves less at warmer temps, so adding extra aeration is a must right now if you are to deal effectively with ridding the tank fo whitespot and the bacterial bloom.
Making sure there are no rotting plants in the tank and that the fish aren't being fed too much will help in dealing with the bloom. Regular daily water changes will help getting rid of the water quality problems, bacterial bloom and lowering whitspot levels in the tank.
When dealing with whitespot you should continue to treat the fish for at least 2 weeks after the spots have disapeared and not buy any fish for at least a further week after that. It would also be wise to avoid buying fish until your ammonia and nitrite levels have settled down to at least 0 for 2 weeks.

So basically, my advise to you to dealing with your tank issues is;
a. Increase aeration in the tank as much as you can- air stones, extra filtration etc.
b. Rehome as many of your current fish as you are willing to let go of (as long as you leave some fish left of course)- i would strongly advise rehoming the neons in particular as these fish are not likely to make it through the cycle.
c. Test water quality on a daily basis for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
d. Do daily 30-60%+ water changes with dechlorinator to help get rid of the bacterial bloom, lower whitespot levels and deal with the water quality issues.
e. Gradually raise the temp to 29 degree's (like by one of two degrees a day) to help speed up the whitespot parasites life cycle so meds can start treating it ASAP.
f. Treat the tank for the needed length of time with a good whitespot med (when you do water changes, remember to replace the meds losts through such things).




Edit: i was just wondering, do you know anyone with a mature tank or pond with mature filtration? If so, it may be posible to clone your tank which would help considerably in dealing with the cycling tank issues .

I have just talked with a friend of mine who works in a pet store, he has a spare tank to rehome all of my fish and advised me starting again with the cycle issues. He advised that provided the stress of the journey isn't the final blow to these fish, they will be able to deal with the other issues (white spot).

Though this is very helpfull, I will have to be extra carefull when building the tank back up to not get the same issue again.

I do thank all of you for your support. I will bag these fish and return them right after work today.

Thanks again!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I have just talked with a friend of mine who works in a pet store, he has a spare tank to rehome all of my fish and advised me starting again with the cycle issues. He advised that provided the stress of the journey isn't the final blow to these fish, they will be able to deal with the other issues (white spot).

Though this is very helpfull, I will have to be extra carefull when building the tank back up to not get the same issue again.

I do thank all of you for your support. I will bag these fish and return them right after work today.

Thanks again!

If you are rehoming every one of your fish, are you planning on doing a fishless cycle instead?