Fish Seem Scared.....

[karuna]

I've had 14 adolescent Kribs (current size: 1-2 inches) in a 24x12x12 tank for a few months now waiting to be taken to the lfs, I took the 6 that were around 2 inches there today so I'm down to 8 now. However I noticed about a month ago that they seemed to become frightened every time I entered the room and those that were not in a cave would seek cover as soon as they saw me move. I have sat a few times trying to remain as still as possible and a few come out and venture but they are nowhere near as 'comfortable' and as carefree as they used to be. For example, the minute I would reach for a coffee cup they would dart back to cover etc.

I had thought that it was perhaps because the larger females were just bullying the others into cover and the fact that they were beginning to become territorial although now I'm not too sure. The larger females would also hide and there hasnt been much of a difference since I have sold them on (though it's only been 12 hours). Another fact that has left me wondering if I'm doing something wrong is that I gave two of the adolescents to my brother some months back and his are completely unconcerned and oblivious to what is happening in the room, even if you go right up to the tank to take a closer look they dont bat an eyelid.

So one question I have is: My tank is in my bedroom and I'm only in there when I go to sleep/wake up and my brother's is in his sitting room. So will the fact that for most of the time there is no one in the room make mine more frightened of people and movement than say my brother's that are located in a busy room of a family with 4 children? or should this not make a difference?

However, my main concern is: Could their behaviour be the effect of internal tank conditions rather than external? Water conditions etc. Would some internal tank condition be causing them enough stress to behave like this?

As I say I've had them in the tank for some time and they were nowhere near as 'sketchy' as they are now and my brother's are at the same age and remain quite comfortable when being observed. If anyone has any experience of this or some theories that could shed light on the issue then my thanks in advance.

EDIT: Wasnt sure whether this was a question just pertaining to kribs or a broader topic on tank dynamics. I suspect not so I went with the latter. My apologies if this thread should indeed have been put in the African Cichlid Section.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Don't know much about kribs, but could it be that they're growing up and becoming more aware of their surroundings? My tico fry are very bold and outgoing, but their parents dart for cover as soon as they see a movement in the room.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

So one question I have is: My tank is in my bedroom and I'm only in there when I go to sleep/wake up and my brother's is in his sitting room. So will the fact that for most of the time there is no one in the room make mine more frightened of people and movement than say my brother's that are located in a busy room of a family with 4 children? or should this not make a difference?

i think this is entirley possible.

first i would do water tests on your tank, check that there are no issues with water quality. please also post your tank maintenance routine so we can double check everythings looked after ok. then once you have discounted that maybe you can do a little experiment. try spending more time in the room with the fish and see if over a week or so they become more accustomed to your prescence and less shy. maybe consider moving the tank to a busier room.

also what is the tank decor like in yours and your brothers tank? what are the differences, something in there seems to make them feel more secure than they do in your tank so maybe if you change things around they'd be happier.

 

[karuna]

Thanks for the replies.

The breeding male I have has always been a bit 'anti-social' and prefers to remain hidden from sight until he felt the need to patrol, however, the female that was his other half was always out and about in the tank and because all of the fry I have left are females I was a little concerned that they seem to remain so wary. Perhaps the tank is still a little overcrowded for them at the moment, either that or they just take after their father

My tank maintenance routine consists of a 25% water change once or twice a month. I know that usually you want to be doing a water change once a week but because the water is soft where I live if I leave the water an extra week or two then the ph drops a little acidic which I've read/been told by numerous sources/people that the kribs prefer. Every couple of months I clean the filter and filter medium in the tank water I've removed and occasionally I use an old toothbrush to remove any algae that has built up on the glass although I've never had any real problems with algae. I'm not a fish keeping expert for sure so if I've made any glaring omissions please correct me.

I'll do some water tests later on before I do a water change to see if the chemical lvls are higher than they have been.

My brother's tank apart from where in the house it is located is suprisingly similar to mine although on a larger scale. Both have a Flourite substrate with a small layer of sand above, planted but with considerable open swimming spaces, a couple of plant pots and rocks. The only differences are the other fish he keeps with the two female kribs and a peice of bogwood.

I've added a few more broad leaf plants to the tank yesterday to see if the extra cover while swimming around the tank encourages them to come out of hiding as they had previously destroyed a few of the smaller plants. They still run for cover everytime they see me at the moment though, so no change yet. The breeding pair seemed to become more secure and active when I heavily planted the tank the first time but the more delicate plants they destroyed pretty quickly.

I'm in the process of building a new PC which will make its home in my bedroom. Once I get this last delivery and put everything together I should be in the room much more frequently than I am at the moment. I hope this makes a difference as I love watching the kribs. I guess if either of those two experiments with more plants and accustomising them to my presence doesnt work I'll start worrying about water conditions again. I'm just concerned that it's something I cant 'see' that is causing the change in behaviour.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

your maintenance routine seems fine, double check yuor water stats though, and do it every couple of days over a few weeks so you can see if it deteriorates significantly between water changes. kribs will prefer a higher ph, there are other ways you can achieve this than infrequent water changes. you could add crushed oyster shells or tuffa rock, that would get the ph up and you could then do weekly changes if you find you need it.

i'd be interested to see how you get on with changing the tank around and acclimitising them to your prescence. make sure you post back

 

[karuna]

hmmm, (unreliable as internet sources are) I just googled Kribensis and most descriptions give a range of 6.5-7.5 ph although I'm pretty sure the compendiums I have on common tropical fish recommend slightly acidic ph's (I could have gotten it wrong though). I dont have the books at the moment but I'll post a reference when I get them back. If I remember correctly, then Kribs are native to a river system that has subsidiaries of varying water types which gives them their hardy character. I'll look into it again though because I was using infrequent water changes to drop the ph.

I'll be sure to post back and let you know how the little guys are doing although they should all be gone to the lfs by christmas time After they've gone I'll start thinking about what I can keep with my stud now that his partner has died. Not so sure I want to continue breeding them or anything else until I can afford to purchase some larger tanks.

I'm thinking 5 or 6 Tiger Barbs should be relatively safe from him, just need to do a little research and make sure he wont get bullied by the Barbs.

 

[karuna]

Just checked my water stats:

Ammonia < 0.1 mg/litre

Nitrite < 0.1 mg/litre

Nitrate 75-100 mg/litre

I'm not overly suprised at this lvl of Nitrate although it is a bit excessive, the tank has had 14 adolescents for a couple of months and no plants. I added 4 plants on Monday and also some Kent Freshwater Plant and some Kent Pro Plant so I expected them to be a little higher than usual and these lvls should come down as the plants take. More plants are on the way.

pH 7.5

The pH I was surprised at so I tested the tap water and it was up at 8.5 I'll check into that later, but as they are a fairly hardy species the Kribs shouldnt be too stressed by a pH of 7.5.

Also I noticed I had at some point bumped up the thermostat by mistake to 26 instead of 24 degrees celsius so I lowered the stat and did a quick 10% cold water change. The Kribs seemed to become more perky after the cold water sunk to the bottom.

Was the high temperature maybe responsible for stressing them out and making them paranoid?

EDIT: It's been a few months since I did a pH test and I've never had a pH reading from the tank that was at or above 7 unless I had just done a large water change. C'est bizarre.

 

[karuna]

Dwarfgourami the more I read your post the more I'm inclined to agree that that is probably part of what is happening. I noticed that the male adolescents became more reclusive and prefered staying in their caves of choice the older they got although the breeding female didnt seem that bothered most of the time so I was surprised at the change in behaviour of the adolescent females. Guess it's time to just wait and see whether any of the measures I've taken/will take make a difference.

Would love my breeding male to be more active though, age suits him well, just gets more and more handsome (was 3 inches when I got him and is a little over 4 now from tip to tail so I know he's at least about 2 years old)

 

[karuna]

hmm, I think my water test kit is past its best, the one I was using came from a kit that is a few years old now. I'll buy a new kit and retest to make sure. Tested a bottle of mineral water with the pH test to check its accuracy and it was telling me that that was something ridiculous like 8.5 as well.

My brother has his 2 female Kribs that I gave him in the tank with 1 hoplo, 1 cory, 1 plec, 5 lemon tetras, 1 neon and 1 rummy nose (he's waiting till he moves house before he restocks I think). Only difference apart from that is the bogwood and the fact that his is a 50 gallon and mine is a 15 gallon tank.

So I'm pretty sure it is the case that the fish are just not used to and spooked by anyone in the room. I'll have my new PC built and setup in my room by next weekend so the acclimatising will begin then. I'll be sure and post back to let you know how it goes.


EDIT: Grammar

 

[karuna]

Well here is a first update as promised for those that were interested.

After a week of having my new comp set up in the room that the fish are kept it appears that they are becoming more familiar with my presence. I sit about 2 feet away from the tanks and the juveniles now are happy to swim in the open regulating their pecking orders and seem relatively unconcerned with me moving around until I make a sudden movement or stand up quickly. Also, today I noticed my male krib coming to the corner of the tank and checking me out which I havn't seen him do in a long time so things are looking good.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Well here is a first update as promised for those that were interested.

After a week of having my new comp set up in the room that the fish are kept it appears that they are becoming more familiar with my presence. I sit about 2 feet away from the tanks and the juveniles now are happy to swim in the open regulating their pecking orders and seem relatively unconcerned with me moving around until I make a sudden movement or stand up quickly. Also, today I noticed my male krib coming to the corner of the tank and checking me out which I havn't seen him do in a long time so things are looking good.

good stuff

fish can be very interactive but they do sometimes need to get used to your prescence

 

[karuna]

Here is a second update:

After my previous post last week I moved my juveniles over to the 18x10x10 as they are about 1.5-2 inch now and the lfs will take them as soon as they need more Kribensis stock. I wanted my male back in the 15 gallon asap and I don't think a couple of weeks in the 7.5 gallon will do the juveniles any harm so long as I'm careful.

Also, was at one of my better lfs' today but they did not have any oto's as I had planned to buy and the 2 galaxy rasbora they had left were pathetic to say the least. Instead I opted to buy 6 white cloud mountain minnows and 4 amano shrimp to go with the Krib in the 24x12x12.

I was given advice on the forums that it would be risky to house the adult krib with the shrimp but personality-wise he's soft. I've been watching the shrimp and am 90% sure he is no threat to them, in fact he swims within less than an inch of them out in the open; they don't even flinch and he couldnt care less. Even when they try to enter his cave he only feints a head-butt and won't pursue them. But just in case, I have a third tank I can move them to in the unlikely event things turn nasty while I wait for the juveniles' tank to empty.

Added an ~10x4x6 inch peice of bogwood to the centre of the tank, attached some java moss to one end and some more on the top of the Krib's cave (thanks to jimbooo's guide ). Planted some cabomba, java fern and something that looks like duck weed along the back of the tank and added some more sagi to the sides and I'm pleased to report the Krib doesnt know which way to turn next. He seems very happy with the new arrangement.

I think part of his timidity was down to the fact that he felt too exposed out in the open when the lights were on but now I have added the wood and extra plants he is much more lively. Hopefully he will eventually become comfortable out and about in the tank while he knows I'm there.

Thanks again to everyone that has offered advice to me.