Fish Recommendations/input?

[magpie]

OK, as mentioned in my other thread, I'm getting back into this hobby. This forum was recommended to me by a person in a Doberman forum I belong to - said there was lots to be learned here.
My prior tank was 30 gallons and was taken apart about 7-8 years ago. At that time, there wasn't the insane amount of info (or active forums) online as there is now, so I am researching lots, and I am hoping you can help me.

About me: I plan on having a 65 or 75 gallon tank. I use live plants, and have been reading on the "planted tank" forum but though I love live plants, the fish are my focus. My plants in the past were more chosen by look, height and growing habits, and if they thrived in my conditions. However I am willing to do more plant research to help me on that path, too.

So... two of my favorite fish from my prior years:

-Kuhli loach - So cute. Peaceful. My prior guys would come up to eat out of my fingers, and were pretty active even during the day.
I am a sucker for eel-shaped fish and would love more but know that many of them will eat smaller fish, so are not likely good candidates for a starting tank with smaller fish.
-Blue Rams - I am a sucker for cichlids, but don't want a cichlid species tank. I love these guys - gorgeous and spunky.

I plan on having these two for sure. The others below are ones on my "look into" list. I am lucky in that I have a great LFS that has healthy fish, knowledgeable staff, and species that aren't super common. http/www.wetspottropicalfish.com/ I peeked around, and have a list of fish that I'm interested in, and am curious to hear what you think about good tankmates, or other ideas based on my "likes."

- Elephant nose - I would LOVE to have one of these, and they are at the top of my list, but have never had one before. I know they're not one to put in a new tank but would really love to have one at some point.


- Killifish - I think they're gorgeous but have had a small female snack on some Cardinal Tetras in the past - really surprising due to her size, and I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see a tail sticking out of her mouth - so I know the downfalls. Doing a little poking around it seems that a clown killi might be a good addition? Or other epiplatys species? Or this might be a fish that I wait for until my other fish are more mature so that they are less likely to become dinner? Can they live with Rams?
- Apistogramma - As mentioned, I am drawn to the cichlids and those that look like them. Can I have another dwarf cichlid with my Rams? Or should I just have more than 1 pair Rams?
- Pelvicachromis - Same thing - drawn to them, can they live with Rams?

Schooling fish:
Many of the "normal" schooling fish don't appeal to me that much, although I do like Cardinal Tetras.
- Fork-tailed blue eyed Rainbows - beautiful little fish!
- Silver-tipped tetras - also like these guys. Would a school of each of these two work?

- Peacock gudgeon/goby - love these
- Rhinogobius goby - similar affinity to these because of my kuhli love. I think they're neat little guys and interesting. Right now the fish store above has "chinese flower gobies" that I can't find info about anywhere online but are Rhinogobius sp. I love them!

- Marbled hatchetfish - I like their different habits at the top of the tank, and find them interesting.

- Ghost catfish - also fascinating and love how they look in a group.

- Leaf fish - would love to have one however know they eat small fish. Maybe someday with a more established tank?
- Rope fish - same thing. Fills my eel love traits however would need to be added later on probably.


So... that long list. Which would you put together and how many of each? Anything up there throw red flags or generally bad idea?
I feel like I'm missing a slightly larger fish for balance, like an angel but don't necessarily want angels. Gouramis? I like the chocolate ones but have read that they are delicate. Other suggestions?

I'm fairly open.

Thanks for reading!

 

[onidrase]

-Kuhli loach - So cute. Peaceful. My prior guys would come up to eat out of my fingers, and were pretty active even during the day.
I am a sucker for eel-shaped fish and would love more but know that many of them will eat smaller fish, so are not likely good candidates for a starting tank with smaller fish.
-Blue Rams - I am a sucker for cichlids, but don't want a cichlid species tank. I love these guys - gorgeous and spunky.

I plan on having these two for sure. The others below are ones on my "look into" list. I am lucky in that I have a great LFS that has healthy fish, knowledgeable staff, and species that aren't super common. http/www.wetspottropicalfish.com/ I peeked around, and have a list of fish that I'm interested in, and am curious to hear what you think about good tankmates, or other ideas based on my "likes."

- Elephant nose - I would LOVE to have one of these, and they are at the top of my list, but have never had one before. I know they're not one to put in a new tank but would really love to have one at some point.


- Killifish - I think they're gorgeous but have had a small female snack on some Cardinal Tetras in the past - really surprising due to her size, and I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see a tail sticking out of her mouth - so I know the downfalls. Doing a little poking around it seems that a clown killi might be a good addition? Or other epiplatys species? Or this might be a fish that I wait for until my other fish are more mature so that they are less likely to become dinner? Can they live with Rams?
- Apistogramma - As mentioned, I am drawn to the cichlids and those that look like them. Can I have another dwarf cichlid with my Rams? Or should I just have more than 1 pair Rams?
- Pelvicachromis - Same thing - drawn to them, can they live with Rams?

Schooling fish:
Many of the "normal" schooling fish don't appeal to me that much, although I do like Cardinal Tetras.
- Fork-tailed blue eyed Rainbows - beautiful little fish!
- Silver-tipped tetras - also like these guys. Would a school of each of these two work?

- Peacock gudgeon/goby - love these
- Rhinogobius goby - similar affinity to these because of my kuhli love. I think they're neat little guys and interesting. Right now the fish store above has "chinese flower gobies" that I can't find info about anywhere online but are Rhinogobius sp. I love them!

- Marbled hatchetfish - I like their different habits at the top of the tank, and find them interesting.

- Ghost catfish - also fascinating and love how they look in a group.

- Leaf fish - would love to have one however know they eat small fish. Maybe someday with a more established tank?
- Rope fish - same thing. Fills my eel love traits however would need to be added later on probably.

I'd avoid the leaf fish totally, I've heard they can be quite aggressive, and a lot of them like more brackish conditions. They're also carnivorous, so you'd have to avoid any small fish at all.

Killifish are predatory, and have quite a wide mouth, so keeping them with smaller fish is risky. I don't know much about the clown killi you mentioned, though.

Ghost catfish are very sensitive, and although I've got a hardy group of them from my beginner year which has gone through much hardship, I'd still wait till your tank is established, and keep them in a group of 6 or more. Also try and keep them with less rambunctious fish, as they're very calm and slow moving, and easily stressed out.

I would get bolivian rams instead of blue rams, from what I've read, blue rams are not as hardy and prefer a pretty high water temperature.

I don't know much about other dwarf cichlid species, but if the apistos and stuff aren't compatible, you can also look into keyhole cichlids. They're around 5-6 inches, hardy, and peaceful.

 

[creeker]

In a tank that size, you could put a shoal of Silver tips, Cardinals, Marble Hatchets, and Kuhlis all together no problem. The rainbows might work too, but I hear they're kind of hyper. I wouldn't mix dwarf cichlids, probable territorial disputes. I would go with one pair Rams with your schoolers.
Amazon Leaf Fish is my very favorite fish. You must be committed to feeding them two fish daily the size of male guppies. They would be good with the Rope Fish, in a two species tank. You could add an African Butterfly in with them for a top fish.
I have no experience with the gudgeon or the goby. I'm thinking not good in a community tank. The species I do know can be nippy and hard to get food down to amidst other fish. Elephant Noses are a bit sensitive, and can stop feeding suddenly in my experience.
Killies do best on their own. Special water softness needs and problems with other tankmates.

 

[magpie]

I'd avoid the leaf fish totally, I've heard they can be quite aggressive, and a lot of them like more brackish conditions. They're also carnivorous, so you'd have to avoid any small fish at all.

Killifish are predatory, and have quite a wide mouth, so keeping them with smaller fish is risky. I don't know much about the clown killi you mentioned, though.

Ghost catfish are very sensitive, and although I've got a hardy group of them from my beginner year which has gone through much hardship, I'd still wait till your tank is established, and keep them in a group of 6 or more. Also try and keep them with less rambunctious fish, as they're very calm and slow moving, and easily stressed out.

I would get bolivian rams instead of blue rams, from what I've read, blue rams are not as hardy and prefer a pretty high water temperature.

I don't know much about other dwarf cichlid species, but if the apistos and stuff aren't compatible, you can also look into keyhole cichlids. They're around 5-6 inches, hardy, and peaceful.

Yes, I had crossed the leaf fish off my list initially but then keep coming back to them as a 'maybe.' Maybe I need to have them in the future in a different tank with larger species.

I have heard that ghost catfish are sensitive. What fish do you keep them with? It seems like a decent number of the fish on my list are better off if I wait until it's established... sigh... I am lucky in that the fish from the store I linked to are generally very healthy and hardy, so that does stack the odds in my favor. I went into a different store yesterday just to browse - they carry all kinds of pet supplies - and the fish were just less colorful, less active, there was ich, there was dead fish. Very sad looking puffers (I think I even literally said "awwww" under my breath.)

Anyway, I'll look into bolivian rams, but I did have good luck with the blues in the past. Again, maybe partially due to where I got them. Maybe partially due to planted tank and decent city water too?

I'll also check the keyholes.

Thanks much!

In a tank that size, you could put a shoal of Silver tips, Cardinals, Marble Hatchets, and Kuhlis all together no problem. The rainbows might work too, but I hear they're kind of hyper. I wouldn't mix dwarf cichlids, probable territorial disputes. I would go with one pair Rams with your schoolers.
Amazon Leaf Fish is my very favorite fish. You must be committed to feeding them two fish daily the size of male guppies. They would be good with the Rope Fish, in a two species tank. You could add an African Butterfly in with them for a top fish.
I have no experience with the gudgeon or the goby. I'm thinking not good in a community tank. The species I do know can be nippy and hard to get food down to amidst other fish. Elephant Noses are a bit sensitive, and can stop feeding suddenly in my experience.
Killies do best on their own. Special water softness needs and problems with other tankmates.

I like the idea of your species tank - butterfly fish are also so unique. Do you have photos of your setup for your leaf fish?

I can let go of the killies, I like them and think they're gorgeous but not enough to keep a species tank of them, or work my entire setup around them. But I did read about the clowns being a better choice as they like to hang out near the top of the tank and are less likely to eat someone lower, however I definitely would add them once my other fish were larger anyway, so I have time.

I will definitely wait awhile before I decide on the elephant nose - I have a friend who did really well with them. I have a lot more research to do in regards to their care. I read that they prefer live worms, brine shrimp, mosquito larvae, and are fed best after lights are out. I am interested enough in them to put in the effort but again, it won't be immediately.

I have read that the rhinogobius gobies can fare well in a community tank, however they like a slightly cooler temperature so I have to keep that in consideration when figuring out my mix.
The peacock gudgeon is supposed to be peaceful according to a few "bios" online. I need to peek around here for more species reports, too. Would love to hear from anyone who owns either of these.

I really appreciate your input! I love forums... so much knowledge to be had.

Oh, another schooler that I saw that interested me was Colombian Tetra. Seem to be active, colorful, different.


I am making a list of what areas of the tank these all live in, their PH/temperature/softness preferences, and food preferences. I'm a dork like that. Maybe I need to add primary color, too, to help with my decision.

Are there any websites that are more reputable / spot on as far as fish profiles go?

 

[magpie]

OK, after reading up some more I have a tentative list.

- 2 Rams - maybe have been talked into the Bolivian - they are supposedly more hardy, however the Blues in my store are very healthy, so I may give them a try as I loved them before. (As I mentioned, my fish store ROCKS.)
- 2 Apistogramma of some sort (Cockatoo are supposed to be good with Rams - & I am drawn to dwarf cichlids)
- 5? Clown killifish - stay at the top, less likely to eat my other fish than other killis. I need to ask killie folks more probably. Otherwise, marbled hatchetfish for top swimmers instead
- 6 Forktail rainbows
- 6 Cardinal tetras or Silver tip tetras - leaning toward cardinals for the color and a contrast to the other school of rainbows.
- 2 Peacock gudgeons - still reading that they're OK in a community
- 3-5 kuhli loaches
- 1-2 Rhinogobius goby/ies - need to ask the store about them - we'll see what they say.


This is just a possible list. I am open and have just put it together. I looooove chocolate gouramis but they are supposedly delicate. Again, the store I buy from has super healthy fish so that sets me up more for success than others. Our water tends to be soft and in the neutral-ish pH range, also better for some of the more delicate fish.

Whatcha think? I think I have a range of top, middle and bottom guys, supposedly should get along, a nice mix of dwarf cichlids and others that appeal to me like killies, and also my cute bottom dwellers - the loaches and goby.

Still eyeing up the elephant nose, however it wouldn't be for a while and after more research and tank establishment.


I just bought the 65 gallon tank today, plan on planting it up well and having rocks and wood with all kinds of hidey holes. The substrate I got is like a bit bigger than sand, almost like a sand/gravel mix/hybrid and some flourite. Got an external canister filter (eheim 2217) and just a strip light for now. Need to look up more about lighting this week.

 

[magpie]

Follow up question - once the tank is fish-ready and cycled up, who do I introduce first? Seems like many on my list like an established setup. Tetras?
 

 

[creeker]

Follow up question - once the tank is fish-ready and cycled up, who do I introduce first? Seems like many on my list like an established setup. Tetras?
 

You're right. The fish you have chosen like an established tank. I would not add Cardinal Tetras first. I've been thinking about your list and another post on forum. It jarred my memory about Silver Tip Tetras. They can get nippy. I don't think I'd trust them with Hatchetfish or other calm topwater fish.

 

[magpie]

Maybe I should do Colobmian tetras - I like them, they're still colorful, more tolerant of a new tank.

How long does a tank run to become considered "established?" Probably different per all tanks, pH and water should be solid with minimal fluctuations?

 

[the_lock_man]

Maybe I should do Colobmian tetras - I like them, they're still colorful, more tolerant of a new tank.

How long does a tank run to become considered "established?" Probably different per all tanks, pH and water should be solid with minimal fluctuations?

In terms of tetras, six months seems to be the oft-quoted figure.

 

[magpie]

Even in a fully planted tank? What do people do in this circumstance, when most of the fish they want should have an established tank? Do I get some "break in" fish and return them someday? That seems strange.

 

[fluttermoth]

A mature, or well established tank is a difficult thing to define, but basically it means that the tank has a good biofilm covering all the surfaces. This (in ways which haven't been fully understood, as far as I'm aware) creates a more complex biological system than the one that is formed after a just fishless cycle.

Most tetras are fine in newer tanks, but all the neons ('normal' neons, cardinals and green/false neons) do seem to prefer older, mature tanks; for instance I used to lose a lot of green neons in quarantine, even though I always used plants and mature filter media.

The rainbowfish, tetras (depending on what species you go with) and kuhlis ought to be fine in a newer tank, so start with those and gradually add the others.

I'd steer clear of the silvertips; I've got 18, and I still wouldn't trust them with peaceful, slow moving fish (or anything with long fins).

 

[magpie]

Thanks - that's very helpful feedback!

Should I have more than 6? How many - 8? 10?

Thanks - that's very helpful feedback!

Should I have more than 6? How many - 8? 10?

 

[creeker]

Thanks - that's very helpful feedback!

Should I have more than 6? How many - 8? 10?

Thanks - that's very helpful feedback!

Should I have more than 6? How many - 8? 10?

At least 10 or so each of the smaller tetras. If less than that they will be hard to see in your tank. The more you have, the more they tend to group together and swim up into the middle layer of the tank. Small groups tend to hide out near the bottom.

 

[magpie]

sorry for the odd double post in one post.

Great, 10+ tetras it is. Thanks.