Fish Losing Colour

[ArteEtLabore]

Hi, 2 weeks ago i change the decor of one of my tanks from bog wood to rock, the rock is limestone based. I also took off the dark background in favour of having a see through tank so i expected the fish to appear duller. I was slightly worried that they appeared too dull so last night i moved one of the fish and put it in my main tank which also has the same species in it, the difference was frightening, compared to the others this 1 looked like a completely different fish, almost white in comparison. The Fish appear as healthy as they have always been, they eat well, they are as active as before, there is no signs of disease, no flashing or flicking, no redness around the gills. I thought it may be the minute limestone content in the rock, which can raise KH and ultimately PH, so i tested for both and there was no change at all from before i changed the decor. The rocks have a lot of crevises in them, i sterolised them beforehand and gave them a good scrub, there is however a tiny bit of moss on some of them that i couldn't remove and lichen which would not come off.

What could be causing this? The fish are silver swordtails.

PH 7.2
KH 0 - 0.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 15

 

[aly_starh]

Limestone increases PH and water hardness so should be boiled before adding in.
The loss of colour may be fish 'toning' down due to enviromental factors. ie substrate colour, background colour: - or it might be a bacterial infection.

What are your water readings?

~betta_246

 

[ArteEtLabore]

Limestone increases PH and water hardness so should be boiled before adding in.
The loss of colour may be fish 'toning' down due to enviromental factors. ie substrate colour, background colour: - or it might be a bacterial infection.

What are your water readings?

~betta_246

I'm sorry betta_246, i know your only trying to help but did you not read the post? i already mentioned the limestone effect and the fact that i sterolised the rocks, i already mentioned the enviromental factors dulling the fish and i already stated the water parametres.

 

[aly_starh]

is that why your post has been edited.

 

[loraxchick]

no need to get rude folks.
i would think that it is due to environmental conditions. i have cories in with sand and they are MUCH lighter in color than the cories i have with darker gravel. all the same species and purchased at the same time from the same shop.
just keep an eye out for strange suspicious behavior, which you say is not present atm.

all the best!

 

[ArteEtLabore]

is that why your post has been edited.

Look at the edit time compared to yours you moron!

Why would i do that anyway August09, 300+ posts, i've seen your type countless times before, quality not quantity betta_246, i suggest you read post fully before replying in the future.

Like i wrote in the original post, it is not enviromental/colour/reflection changes because when i put one of the duller fish in another tank with the same species in it it barely looks like the same fish, unbelievably pale. I basically want confirmation that certain types of non-aquatic moss or lichens cannot change the skin colour of fish, this is something that very few people would know, hence posting on this forum, not for people like you to tot up another post.

Betta if your not going to reply with something useful then please don't bother ok.

 

[WILDER]

Whats your tap ph.

What was your ph before you added the rock.

Going to leave a ph shock article so you can rule out the symtoms.




pH Shock

As its name suggests this condition occurs when a fish is introduced to quickly into a new environment which has a very different pH from the one it came from, when the pH is adjusted to quickly and the fish have little or no time to adjust themselves, or when the pH is to far outside the fishes normal range.

It is very important that any change in water chemistry is made slowly and fish should never be exposed to changes of pH greater than 0.5 of one unit on the pH scale in either direction.

Avoidance is by far the best solution because in most cases the symptoms don't appear until the second or third day by which time the damage has been done and the fish will probably die.

A fish suffering from this condition will show all the typical signs of shock -

Lying on the bottom and paying little or no attention to its surroundings and ignoring potential threats.
It may even lay on its side or go upside down completely.
There could be other signs to, related to Acidosis and Alkalosis
Excessive mucus production.
Rapid breathing.
Swollen abdomen. (Alkalosis only).
If the condition is allowed to go on for one or two days then the chances of a successful remedy are greatly reduced because a lot of damage will have taken place. If the symptoms are spotted early enough there are a couple of things that will help.

Begin to return the pH to the original pH in steps of 0.4 of one unit on the pH scale and allow 3 hrs in between the adjustments. Make these adjustments until the pH is returned to a safe and satisfactory level.
Treat the tank with a broad spectrum anti-Bacteria/Fungus compound to prevent secondary infections of the Skin and Gills.
Prevention is easy. A successful treatment isn't!
PH SHOCK LINK
http/groups.msn.com/FishHealth/phshock.msnw

 

[loraxchick]

is that why your post has been edited.

Look at the edit time compared to yours you moron!

Why would i do that anyway August09, 300+ posts, i've seen your type countless times before, quality not quantity betta_246, i suggest you read post fully before replying in the future.

Like i wrote in the original post, it is not enviromental/colour/reflection changes because when i put one of the duller fish in another tank with the same species in it it barely looks like the same fish, unbelievably pale. I basically want confirmation that certain types of non-aquatic moss or lichens cannot change the skin colour of fish, this is something that very few people would know, hence posting on this forum, not for people like you to tot up another post.

Betta if your not going to reply with something useful then please don't bother ok.

just ignore the folks that raise your fur, so to speak. it is only begging for a retaliatory response.
mosses and plants will not make your fish change color. if it has been in one tank for a wihle and is one color, and then you plop it into another tank, it wont darken or lighten up right away. if kept in different substrate/decore/etc., fish will often "match" the decor (not like a chameleon for folks who would differ on this, but darker in dark substrate/decor/lighted tanks and lighter in lighter tanks). if both tanks your fish have been in are similarly set up, then either some sort of stress, or perhaps just a variation in phenotype. there is always variation on any characteristic of any plant/animal and comparing from one to the next isnt always black or white. as long as eating/acting normally i wouldnt worry.
cheers

 

[ArteEtLabore]

Thanks for that Wilder, i had already ruled out PH shock but this deffinately confirms my thoughts, PH shock was the first thing i thought of because of the Limestone rock, however, unless i was to introduce copious amounts of limestone rock with a very high limestone content then the PH and water hardness change would be minimal and it would change over a long period of time, the effect would be rendered pretty much un-noticable in ornamental aquariums due to the large, regular water changes. The PH and KH haven't changed at all since changing from wood to rock, it used to be 7.2 and its still 7.2, as it is out of the tap, well between 7.1 and 7.4, its impossible to tell exactly without scientific, high-end equipment.

What do you think about the effects of non-aquatic moss and lichen?

 

[loraxchick]

Thanks for that Wilder, i had already ruled out PH shock but this deffinately confirms my thoughts, PH shock was the first thing i thought of because of the Limestone rock, however, unless i was to introduce copious amounts of limestone rock with a very high limestone content then the PH and water hardness change would be minimal and it would change over a long period of time, the effect would be rendered pretty much un-noticable in ornamental aquariums due to the large, regular water changes. The PH and KH haven't changed at all since changing from wood to rock, it used to be 7.2 and its still 7.2, as it is out of the tap, well between 7.1 and 7.4, its impossible to tell exactly without scientific, high-end equipment.

What do you think about the effects of non-aquatic moss and lichen?

non-aquatic moss and lichen(sphagnum moss for example) actually are acidic and would lower pH. maybe why you havent seen a rise in pH from switching from wood. and if truely nonaquatic, they will rot and alter water chemistry pretty well, so careful of that.
agreed that limestone doesnt instantly alter pH so pH "shock" as it were is unlikey.
cheers

 

[WILDER]

So there green bits on the fish.

 

[ArteEtLabore]

Thanks loraxchick. I understand what your saying completely but i have never seen a colour change this drastic before, thankfully i'm not stressing too much because they are in good health and that is of course the main thing, but with them been rare fish that i breed and sell for profit i worry about the reaction of potential buyers. The two tanks in question are totally different, the one with the normal coloured fish is a high-tech, fully planted tank with black substrate and black background, the raising tank in question is grey rock, light brown substrate and no background which has a white wall behind it, i did of course expect this enviroment change to make a colour difference to the eye due to the change in light reflection but not a physical difference.

mmm, very strange then, thanks for the answer on the moss, as it has been falling off i have been removing it as quickly as possible and keeping a very close eye on parametres.

So there green bits on the fish.

Sorry wilder, is that a literal question or a clever pun?

 

[WILDER]

I would remove the rock to see if the fish gets it colour back.

Being pale can be stress, ph shock, bacterial, parasites.

It could also be stress due to changing the fish surroundings.

 

[ArteEtLabore]

I may have to take your advice on that one. Its a real shame though, the reason for putting the rock in was to act as a small scale test run for a large aquascape i was planning, but with the amount of rock in question i tried this natural and ultimately cheap alternative instead of the scape rock that is on the internet which is sold at ridiculous prices. I may let it run a little longer and see if the fish show any signs of stress as at the moment everything looks healthy and well.

 

[WILDER]

Good Luck.