Fish Dying 1 A Week

[bikerfish]

Hi All
I have had a topic going on discussion about nitrate going through the roof as at the start of my problems this is what I thought problem was but obv is a lot more going on?
 
I am losing a fish 1 a week and they are south American cychilds ,I bought 4 small keyholes 1st died next day then 2nd 3days later since then 1 a week,  The symptoms are  sitting on the bottom and not eating with rapid gill movements and they died with in 24hrs. I have been watching them closely to see any more symptoms , then second from last I noticed my angel had white stringy poo then same symptoms so went  and got interpet internal bacteria and dosed the tank. A week later her mate died again with in 24hrs of showing signs.
On fri another 1 had white stringy poo and stoped eating so straight up lfs water test which is amm 0 nitite 0 nitrate was between 20 and 40 and bought JBL GYRODOL  which is for gill flukes and other worms
In the middle of this happening.
 I went on holiday and when I came home my nitrate was high and lost 2 fish that week which put down to friend over feeding them also not sure how long fish had been dead for in tank. So gave big waterchange , took all wood and plants out gave substrate a very good clean also external filter light wash in tank water as worried about good bacteria , also added a lot of live bacteria over next couple of days . I have been testing water on all 3 things very reg plus at lfs just to make sure all is good. Put next couple of fish dying to nitrate poisoning but it was when I noticed the angel with the white poo that I added the internal bacteria.
I have now got a vecton2 uv for 300lt up and running on Friday but turned of sat when put meds in.
My latest fish will prob die tomorrow as now in a bad way , these meds seem to pick it up a bit sat afternoon and he tried to eat but since then went back down hill .
My tank is a 4ft and 240lt with substrate and live plants and 3 pieces of bogwood, I clean 1 a week with waterchange roughly 30% add water conditioner and clean filter 1 a month in tank water.
Fish I have left in tank are 3 small cichilds and 4 glass fish (not cats) 1 brn
Sorry for the war and peace but only way to explain , thank you for reading
cathy

 

[Ch4rlie]

LFS test result saying 0 amm, 0 nitrite, nitrates 20 to 40, thats pretty normal readings.
 
Do you have your own FW liquid test kit? If not, then would recommend you get one of these so you can do your owns tests.
 
Rapid gill movements and lethargy sounds more like ammonia poisoning. Do the fish have red gills, or red blotches on body?
(nitrite poisoning, fish more likely to be at surface of water with rapid gill movements)
 
One other thing, have you tested for pH, possible pH or temperature swings might do something like this.

 

[bikerfish]

Hi the test I have are the api drops which are pretty accurate , forgot to mention just before they die they go by 1 of my airstone in which I have 2 also good movement on top by filter.
Temp sits stable not done ph but lfs done them which said were good, as had the full tests done.

No other signs and the fish look healthy and eating healthy till rapid gill and not eating and on bottom of tank, by air stone just before they die. There is no other signs they look healthy.
notice 2 with white stringy poo but others could have had this and I missed this when at work, I spend a lot of time watching tank to see if I can spot any more signs but there does not seem to be.
It is def not water , It seems to be 1 a week that is causing the problem to find what is wrong.
It has been suggested maybe it was gases built up under the substrate when cleaning but the last 2 have gone down with this the day day before I clean tank, also only have small amout of substrate in bottom and when put fingers through this the fish are always at the over end of tank.
cathy

 

[Ch4rlie]

Am stumped am afraid. 

 
Lets hope someone will come forward with more of an idea of what may be going on. 
 
Sorry cant be of more help at the moment.
 
But will have a look at some research with these symptoms you've described but seems you already have done a lot of that.

 

[bikerfish]

Hi I have done nothing else , I did put a couple after holiday to nitrate as the symptoms were very similar but obv not as still happening

Thank you for your help
cathy

 

[Ch4rlie]

Sorry, couple more questions, do you dechlorinate the water when you do water changes?
 
Also, your friend who watched/fed your fish while on holiday, do you happen to know if she/he did any cleaning with polish or perhaps sprayed air fresheners, deodorant for example in the same room as your tank?
 
just trying to think of all possibilities at the moment. Doing a process of elimination....

 

[bikerfish]

Hi I always dechlorinate fresh water .
I asked my friend if she had sprayed any thing or done any thing while I was away or touched the filter which was a no.
cathy

 

[Ch4rlie]

Seems the problems started to happen when you added the keyholes and they died one by one in the first week then your original stocking started to get affected.
 
So that basically points to disease of some sort, but which, I do not know.
 
I know you already worked that out yourself, just thinking aloud really.

 

[bikerfish]

Hi that is fine to think out aloud , I no I do it drives the old man batty

It def is pointing that way but what it is I am having trouble working out what it is ?
This meds is due to come out tomorrow as only in for 48hrs and redoes in 7 days if needed ?
Thinking maybe put rest of cichilds in quarantine tank which is not ideal as only 60lt and moving guppies into this tank and leave the glass fish in this tank so it will leave the filter working properly as this does not seem to effect the glass fish only the cichilds , makes me think it might be in the substrate as they pick of the bottom .

This cichlid has lasted longer than the rest so still hoping he is going to pick up which I think it is due to the meds that I have put in ?
cathy

 

[ShinySideUp]

You have too many unknowns: Meds, new fish, friends over-feeding.
 
You seem to have grasp of fish-keeping regarding water changes, temp, chemistry, so I would now recommend doing...nothing.
 
Put some carbon in the filter to take out the remaining meds (leave for 24 hours then remove that too) and get yourself back to a known state i.e. ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate: to acceptable levels.
 
Accept fish losses and remove dead fish promptly, don't disturb the substrate anymore and try to leave the tank and filter alone, apart from water changes, for a couple of weeks and let nature restore some semblance of balance. Start now.
 
Up your water changes to 50% every four days but do nothing else. Water out, new treated water in. Let things settle.
 
 

 

[bikerfish]

Hi Cheers for answering
Your advice as makes a lot of sense , I have been driving my self baty trying to work out what is wrong as like you said to much is happening, so do big water change tonight and turn my uv back on.

cathy

 

[bikerfish]

Hi All
My poor fish that is the last 1 to come down with this is still here so thought that was a good thing,normaly they die with 24hrs.
He is still near the bottom with rapid gill movement , odd bit of white stringy poo and only moves if another fish comes near him, occ he looks like he is slightly better but goes down hill fairly quickly. He last ate properly Friday morning , very tiny bit sat afternoon after meds were put in and nothing since.
Question is do I get the clove drops or shall I give him another day or so ?
I have not had to use clove oil before but read this is the best way?
cathy

 

[bikerfish]

 He died in the night , this has made my mind up on 1 thing and that if any of the other fish come down with this then the clove oil will be used as no point hoping they are going to pull through as lost to many fish
cathy

 

[bikerfish]

Hi  I can not believe this I think my 3 year old female brn is not well now

 she is just staying still under a piece of bogwood,
Had enough  . I know shiny side up said to leave it for a couple of weeks and except fishes deaths , sorry was going to follow your advice.
 
Remaining 2 keyholes and 2 angels are going into my quarantine tank with 4 glass fish and the guppies which will stay in there and then do a fish in cycle with the guppies and glass fish also put filter start in there to help it along .
 
Just wait and see if the keyholes and angels still going down with this in other tank
 
cathy