Fish Dropping Like Flies

[scouseflip]

Hi anyone!

Started a 35 litre tank about 2 months ago for first time - started with 5 neon tetra. Left it a couple of weeks thenbrought in 2 small golden angels and a siamese fighter. Everything still fine. another 2 weeks on and I brought in a pair of red platty, one of which died straight away. I didn't reailse I should have taken it to the shop for inspection and I flushed it.

After that I replaced the dead platty and all was well for a while.

Last week 4 neons and the most recent Platty died around the same time. I did a 25% water change and took a sample to be tested and all was well so I got 2 more neon's (taking total to 3) and 3 (runny nose tetra). I mentioned to the guy at the shop what had been happening but he didn't seem to think it was and issue to introduce more fish - all 3 Neons died the same day.

Something must be wrong here but it's not the water, non of the fish show any signs of illness or disease and are all acting normally (as far as I can tell as a newcomer to this). I have been using a varied diet of flakes, granules and live food. The water has been changed every 10-15 days (about 10%) with a monthly (25%) change within this. Water quality checked weekly, temperature monitored closely, light on for about 10 hours a day at about the same time every day, feeding seems about right - not much in the way of wastage after each feed (2 - 3 times daily)... I Dont know what I'm doing wrong!!

I suspected the Angelfish at first - they seem to chase the other fish around a bit - but I don't know for sure as have never seen any actual fighting. I don't want to put any more fish into the tank - I already feel bad about the fact that I have apparently killed 9 fish in only 2 months.

Any help or advice much appreciated...

 

[rabbitsrus2oo6]

The same sort of thing has happened to me recently, my water quality was fine and so was the temp and ph. mine turned out to be an internal bactierial infection, signs of this are a hollow abdomen and ulcers when it gets worse. I didnt realise it was this until i lost five fish i introduced new ones to my tank as well and they died the day after they were introduced so just look for those few symptoms, hollow abdomen, dropsy, ulcers etc and that should help determine if it is this, if it is you need to get some treatment quickly xx

 

[scouseflip]

Thanks so much for your quick reply!

The Platy that has survived (so far!) does look quite fat/bloated - we thought it was pregnent at first!. I'll investigate further!

 

[Christine1014]

35 Liters is far too small for a pair of anglefish, and i believe in the wild, neons are their natural prey.
Additionally -- did you cycle your tank? Neons are definitely NOT hardy fish and don't adjust well to changing water parameters.

 

[Lynda B]

The water has been changed every 10-15 days (about 10%) with a monthly (25%) change within this.

Has this been your schedule since you set your tank up? With a brand new tank, with fish, you would have wanted to change your water more often to lessen the ammonia and bad bacteria. We did 50% water changes at the onset.

Now, your tank is probably cycled and you should be doing weekly water changes of 25 - 50%, not 10%.

Water quality checked weekly

What are your readings:

pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:

Again, at the beginning, you would've wanted to check your readings about every 3 days.

feeding seems about right - not much in the way of wastage after each feed (2 - 3 times daily

We feed twice daily, no more than the fish can eat within a 5 minute timeframe. A fish's stomach is about the size of its eye. Feed accordingly.

 

[dthoffsett]

Unfortuantely a 9 gallon tank is too small for all but the betta and rummy nose tetras. Your fish are most likely dying from the ammonia and nitrite present, your tank probably should have cycled in the time you've had it, however being overstocked and not cleaned often enough (for your stocking you should be changing 30% of the water one to two times per week), you most likely still have ammonia present.

You really need to get your own liquid test kits for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, and PH, you can usually find all of these in a master test kit, API is a really good brand. When your lfs tells you your water is fine, do they give you actual readings? And, do they use liquid or paper strip kits? Paper kits are notoriously inaccurate. It's sad, but it sounds like to me your lfs only cares about selling you as many fish as possible, because no responsible store would continue to sell you inappropriate fish for your tank size, nor would they keep selling you fish without trying to help you figure out why yours are dying.

My recommendations would be to return all but the betta (siamese fighter) and tetras, get a test kit, and start doing more water changes. Either that, or get a larger tank(at least 30 gallons, 115 liters), you'll still need to cycle the new tank, but it would be more appropriate for the fish you have. If you get the larger tank, you'll want to leave the betta in the smaller tank, because your angelfish and betta aren't compatible.

Here's a link to explain cycling better. http/www.fishforums.net/Cycling-Resource...er-t141944.html

I'm sorry to hear about the rough start, but we've all stumbled. Feel free to ask any more questions you have. Dawn

 

[scouseflip]

Thanks Dawn Lynda and Christine for your replys.

Quick update - I said all the neons had died - I was wrong! One appears to have been in hiding, tucked under a small decoration. He is spending a lot of time here presumably as he has no other neons to schoal with and is vunerable. I am not planning to introduce any more until I know that they are going to be safe but I think I should return the survivor so he can have some company - the runny nose tetra seem too active and he can't keep up with them.

I'll try and answer all points mentioned:

1) Water -I don't have readings - I am new and not confident reading them myself so have been taking watyer samples to the lfs for testing. They have advised every time that the water is fine but not given specific readings to me and I don't know what sort of tests they use. We cycled the water for 2 weeks before introducing any fish and have ciontinued to does the water as instructed on the bottle for a new tank. I think I should get myself a test kit and start taking the responsibility for the water testing myself.

2) The lfs is a reputable dealer as far as my research goes and they have advised against certain purchases based on the size of the tank I hoped I could trust them to advise in the best interests of the fish. They advised that the angels were okay for the tank - they are about 1 inch and 1.5 inch in size. They know which tank we have as they sold it to us and still have it on display so we have shown them what we have and told them what we have in it every time we purchased.

HOWEVER - The fact that more than one of you suggest it is too small leads me to believe that I have been advised badly by the lfs. I will return the angels to them this weekend Do you really think the tank is too small for the Platy? It is only about 2-3 cm long?

4) Feeding - thanks for your recomendation Lynda, I will reduce the feeding to twice daily.

I think on the whole that I do need a new lfs from your advice. Annoying as they are a large outlet with a good reputation locally.

Thanks again for your advice and encouragement!

 

[vinylman]

Leaving a tank running for two weeks doesn't do a thing towards cycling, unfortunately. Most LFS won't even acknowledge the existence of fishless cycling. As far as they're concerned, the sooner they start selling you fish, then more fish when the first ones die, the better.

 

[vinylman]

To be honest, Scouseflip, with a 35l tank, you should really be looking at smallish-bodied fish that won't get beyond 2"-ish. That would mean you could have two decent sized shoals of two different species. I know it's tempting to have as many different fish as possible, but you want the fish you DO have to behave as naturally as possible and that means a shoal of around 5/6. Fish are much more comfortable and less stressed with a decent group of their own kind. Swimming space is very important, too, even with Neon Tetras; they may be small, but they need a lot of swimming soace, which is why it's better to have a tank that's a decent length, rather than square-ish.

 

[Lynda B]

Believe me, this won't be the first time that a lfs has led a customer astray. Sometimes they just really don't know better, like if it is one of those big chain stores. They train their employees on how to sell things, not how to care for things, unfortunately. We were given advice by one of the staff and thank God, we already had really good information. When we questioned their advice, they didn't know what to do. It's like they're programmed to say the same things over and over.

Definitely look into a larger tank. One your size works well as a hospital tank or a quarantine tank, but doesn't afford you the same amount of pleasure that a larger one does. And I got my 30 gallon free, from freecycle.org. Can't beat that with a stick.

 

[Rillan]

You've gone for pretty fish. The angles and the fighter will be trying to eat your neons and probs bullying the platy. sorry to hear about ya loss mate!