Fish Dieing For No Reason

[krazie2004]

Hi, i am posting this for a friends tank, not mine please dont get confused, lol.

Ok so her tank has been running for far longer than mine, about 2 months before since around january 2007. When she first started out, there were plenty of ammonia spikes and nitrite spikes. This carried on for about 6 weeks and so the aquarium recomened she put a few hardy fish in there to help things along (fish cycling). 3 guppies were given to her out of which 1 died within the first week.

Around 2 weeks later Ammnia: 0 , Nitrite: 0, Nitrate : 10, she then bought 4 platys to also help things along more quickly. 2 more weeks later she tested the water and all was good, so she got 6 neons and 2 small angel fish, this is when things got bad.

After about a week after adding these fish the neons started to die, one by one, over about 3 days 5 neons died. The water tested fine so nobody had a clue why they died. 2 days after this a platy died followed by the 2 angel fish the next day.

She did not know what to do so went back to the aquarium store and he gave her 5 penguin tetras as compensation for her other fish dieing.

The water is tested nearly everyday and Ammonia is always 0 so were nitrites.

Now only yesterday a penguin tetra went missing, it was found dead at the top of the heater.

Could anyone help her with whats going on? lol. She just wants to give up and sell everything but i talked her out of it lol.

Please help! Thanks

 

[ghostchoir]

I can't help you with the other deaths, but chances are it was the angels killing the neons.

 

[krazie2004]

I can't help you with the other deaths, but chances are it was the angels killing the neons.

Wow, thanks for the reply, i thought that angel fish were peaceful, clearly i was wrong! whoaaa im stunned lol.

 

[ghostchoir]

They'll eat any small fish that they can really. I'd expect they were particuarly drawn to the neons as in the wild they are their natural prey.

 

[rdd1952]

What type test kit is she using. That definitely sounds like the results of an uncycled tank. If it had only been the neons that died, I would think the angels might have something to do with it as neons are an angel's natural prey but most likely the angels weren't large enough to eat the neons anyway and if she found the neons uneaten, then the angels weren't the problem.

What type chemicals is she using?
What is the pH of the tank water and of the tap water?
Are there any signs of disease on the fish before or after they die?
What size tank is it?
What is the water temperature?
What size filter is on it (gallons per hour)?
What type/size heater is on it (wattage)?

 

[Yazan]

Just something a little shorter.

What size tank?

is filteration good?

whats the tempreture?

whats ph?

 

[Jozlyn]

Both guppies and neon's are not hardy fish, however the platy's are reasonably hardly. I have to be honest and say that it sounds like the tank's not cycled properly or just barley, each time you add fish you're adding to the bio-load which the bacteria already in the filter wont be able to handle.

As everyone else has asked can you post:
The type of test kit your using - liquid or test strips
a full set of water stat's; amonia, nitirite, nitrate, ph, gh, kh
tank size,
filter size and type
temperature
tank ornaments/decorations
substrate
plants

Also how often is she cleaning her tank and how?
Does she do a gravel vac, how often?
Water changes how often, how much?
How does she clean her filter and media? How?
Is she using water conditioner/dechlorinator?
Food, how much, how often, what type?
Any other type of chemicals being added to the tank?

I know it's a lot of questions, but if you're able to post answers to the whole lot we may be able to work out what's going on and make sure she doesn't give up too soon

Edit> for typo's!

 

[krazie2004]

Both guppies and neon's are not hardy fish, however the platy's are reasonably hardly. I have to be honest and say that it sounds like the tank's not cycled properly or just barley, each time you add fish you're adding to the bio-load which the bacteria already in the filter wont be able to handle.

As everyone else has asked can you post:
The type of test kit your using - liquid or test strips
a full set of water stat's; amonia, nitirite, nitrate, ph, gh, kh
tank size,
filter size and type
temperature
tank ornaments/decorations
substrate
plants

Also how often is she cleaning her tank and how?
Does she do a gravel vac, how often?
Water changes how often, how much?
How does she clean her filter and media? How?
Is she using water conditioner/dechlorinator?
Food, how much, how often, what type?
Any other type of chemicals being added to the tank?

I know it's a lot of questions, but if you're able to post answers to the whole lot we may be able to work out what's going on and make sure she doesn't give up too soon

Edit> for typo's!

Ok hi guys. Here we go.

Tank size: 130 litre
Filter: Fluval 3+ (sits under water not external) 540L/Hour
Temperature maintained at 25/26C , 77/80F. 150Watt thermostat
She was told by the aquarium not to do a water change just yet, i told her to do it straight away. She hasn't done one for about 2 weeks.
Vacumms the gravels when a water change is done.
She uses nutrafin aqua plus water conditioner.
Uses a liquid nutrafin test to test the water, also regularly takes the water to the aquarium to get tested.
Gives a pinch and a bit of food every other day.
No chemicals are added to the tank, but red gravel was added recently, but was washed thouroughly before adding into the tank.

pH tank: 7.4
pH water: ~7.2

disease? well the fish seem quite weak before they die, ie getting stuck on the filter and cant swim away.

Water tested yesterday:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 60-70mg/l (i thought this is a bit high so told her to do a water change)

Anymore details needed? Thanks again for the help.

 

[Jozlyn]

LoL thanks, missed a couple of questions tho!

tank ornaments/decorations
plants
How does she clean her filter and media?

red gravel was added recently - This could be causing a problem as it is dyed, I read a thread on this not too long ago, seems the dye was not fish safe!

Also have there been any areosoles of any type been used in the same room? Maybe a plug in air freshner, deoderant, flyspray?

Nitrate: 60-70mg/l (i thought this is a bit high so told her to do a water change) whoa, way too high, you told her absolutley the right thing!

Disease, any redness around the gills, mucus, bloating?

What about salt, is she adding any salt? if so, what type?

Damn I'm running out of questions to ask!

 

[krazie2004]

LoL thanks, missed a couple of questions tho!

tank ornaments/decorations
plants
How does she clean her filter and media?

red gravel was added recently - This could be causing a problem as it is dyed, I read a thread on this not too long ago, seems the dye was not fish safe!

Also have there been any areosoles of any type been used in the same room? Maybe a plug in air freshner, deoderant, flyspray?

Nitrate: 60-70mg/l (i thought this is a bit high so told her to do a water change) whoa, way too high, you told her absolutley the right thing!

Disease, any redness around the gills, mucus, bloating?


What about salt, is she adding any salt? if so, what type?

Damn I'm running out of questions to ask!

LOL. ok.

Tank ornaments added recently include a skull, which was also added with the red gravel. Just to add, the fish were dieing before the gravel was added.

She is aware not to spray aerosols in the room.

The tank has no real plants, just plastic plants.

The dieing fish dont seem have any disease, but the penguin tetra which went missing, was found half eaten .

Lastly, she doesnt add any salt.

 

[rdd1952]

Tank size: 130 litre

Tank was a bit overstocked but with deaths, maybe never actually had too many fish in it. Some of the fish she had though were not good fish for a new tank (angels, neons)

Filter: Fluval 3+ (sits under water not external) 540L/Hour

Filter isn't big enough. General rule of thumb is that the filter needs to process the water a minimum of 5 times per hour which means she needs a filter rated at least 850 lph.

Temperature maintained at 25/26C , 77/80F. 150Watt thermostat
She was told by the aquarium not to do a water change just yet, i told her to do it straight away. She hasn't done one for about 2 weeks.

Temperature is fine but in a new tank, water changes should be made any time there are problems and even in an established tank should be done weekly.

Vacumms the gravels when a water change is done.
She uses nutrafin aqua plus water conditioner.
Uses a liquid nutrafin test to test the water, also regularly takes the water to the aquarium to get tested.

That dechlorinator should be fine. I have heard of some people having trouble with that particular test kit but don't have any experience with it myself. When she takes water to the LFS, do they tell her the actual test results as in ammonia is X, nitrite is X, etc. or just tell her "the waters fine" (what they normally do)? It's important that they tell her the actual numbers and that they are using a liquid kit too an not just strips.

Gives a pinch and a bit of food every other day.

Certainly not feeding too often.

No chemicals are added to the tank, but red gravel was added recently, but was washed thouroughly before adding into the tank.

I doubt the gravel was an issue if it was sold as aquarium gravel. They dye it every color under the sun.

pH tank: 7.4
pH water: ~7.2

disease? well the fish seem quite weak before they die, ie getting stuck on the filter and cant swim away.

pH shouldn't be a factor although it is odd for the tank pH to be higher than the tap pH unless there are ornaments in the tank that are raising it.

Water tested yesterday:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 60-70mg/l (i thought this is a bit high so told her to do a water change)

While that level of nitrate is high, it isn't serious. That is simply a result of her not having done a water change in 2 weeks. A lot of people have 40 ppm in their tap water and anything under 100 ppm is generally considered safe for the fish but isn't recommended as it can lead to algae problems.

It definitely appears that the tank is cycled as the nitrates are increasing and there isn't any ammonia and nitrite. I feel that the problems are from something that is in the tank (a rock, ornament, etc.) that shouldn't be there or from something that may have been used to clean the tank prior to setup that wasn't completely washed away.

If it were me, I would take the tank down and completely clean it. Put the fish in a 5 gallon bucket with the filter and heater running or at least some aeration. Empty the tank and scrub it good with bleach and water (1 part bleach to 20 parts water). Make sure it is rinsed thoroughly and set back up with all new everything (decorations, gravel, etc.). I know that is an expense to buy new stuff but she can't risk putting the other stuff back in there if it is the problem. That would also include cleaning the filter good which unfortunately will mean the tank is uncycled again and she will have to go through the cycling process again but putting anything back in the tank that was previously in it runs the risk of putting the problems right back in. She could use a product like Ammo-lock to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite until the tank cycles again and do water changes every couple days just to keep the ammonium and nitrite levels low (even though they are supposed to be non-toxic, it's still better for those levels to be low just in case)

Someone else may have a simpler solution but I can't think of one.

 

[Jozlyn]

It still sounds like amonia poisioning to me, but your amonia tests are 0, so it can't be that.

Do they go to the top of the tank and look like they're trying to breathe air? are they puffing at all?

Has she got an air stone in there? Maybe the oxygen is a bit low.

I would agree with maybe pulling the tank down and giving it a good clean, but not replacing everything, that's a waste of money.

Maybe you could try pulling it down, cleaning and only putting the gravel, filter and heater back in, with the fish. See how it goes, if there are no fish deaths after a week, then add one decoration at a time a week apart etc and see if maybe it's a problem with one of decorations leaking something toxic. I'm starting to run out of ideas.

Can you take a couple of photo's of the tank and post them?

 

[Jozlyn]

You know I can't stop thinking about your problem and I honestly can't think of anything else to ask to help you. Try sending a PM to Wilder, she's a whizz with fish problems, maybe she can think of something else for you.

 

[krazie2004]

Hey tanks guys for the advice. She is currently doing a 50% water change? and planning on doing another one in 2-3 days is this ok? as the fish deaths have seem to have stopped. About 2 weeks ago they were very frequent, ie 2 a day. 1 thing that caught my eye though was the fact that she wasn't aerating the tank when these deaths occured. Now she is and sice she started to do this, the fish have looked a little healthier.

Also she believes that the fish she got in te first place weren't very good quality, could this be a factor aswel?

Thanks guys. No reported casualties as of last week.

 

[Jozlyn]

Hey thanks guys for the advice. She is currently doing a 50% water change? and planning on doing another one in 2-3 days is this ok?
She can do 50% daily if she wants, but unless one of her water test results is out there's no real point. My tanks are fully cycled and I do 50% water changes weekly, most people do much less.

as the fish deaths have seem to have stopped. About 2 weeks ago they were very frequent, ie 2 a day.
To be honest it sounded all along like the tank wasn't cycled properly.

1 thing that caught my eye though was the fact that she wasn't aerating the tank when these deaths occured. Now she is and sice she started to do this, the fish have looked a little healthier.
That was one of the last things I mentioned above.

Also she believes that the fish she got in te first place weren't very good quality, could this be a factor aswel?
Yes!

Thanks guys. No reported casualties as of last week.
that's fantastic news