Fish Arriving Tomorrow... Tank Not Cycled.

[IanThePufferfish]

Please help! My LFS sold me this BS "bacteria booster, Instant Cycle" chemical and said I can put fish in as soon as I want. But my tank's ammonia is 8ppm... They are receiving the shipment tomorrow and I don't know what to do! They won't hold the fish for me. But I don't want to kill them with that ammonia level... I am also showing No NitrAtes and no NitrItes. Also the chemical was Stability by SeaChem
 
Thanks.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Oh dear!
 
What sized of tank do you have?
 
And what fish species are you expecting?
 
The more information you can give, the better, is there already plants in the tank, what size, what water hardness you have (this is essential as depending on the pH, gH and kH levels, these can affect the cycling).
 
Hmm, do you have another tank thats set up and running or perhaps any friends or relatives who has a established fish tank?
 
If so, then you would have a couple of options right there.
 
Am a little annoyed the LFS won't hold the fish for you for a while but have to say am not that surprised.
 
But if LFS won't hold them and you have no access to any other tanks then your choices are limited am afraid.
 
First choice is to let the fish go, give them back to the LFS and you might get store credit for them. Then you could do a Fishless Cycle.
 
Cycling Your First Fresh water Tank
 
 
 
Second choice, doing a Fish in Cycle, this is not a recommended option that we usually give but sometimes needs must. Here are a couple of article about fish in cycles, I'd urge you to read them carefully so you will have an idea for what you would be expecting if you decide to go down that route. Lots of water changes daily and water testing.
 
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part I
 
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part II
 
 
Zero nitrite and zero nitrate is what you would expect of an uncycled tank. Even so, 8ppm of ammonia is far too high, even for doing a Fishless Cycle. I would do a 75% water change to try and get that level down if you are planning on a Fishless Cycle, if doing a Fish in Cycle then a 100% water change would be needed, you cannot have any ammonia in the tank for new fish in a new tank.
 
First thing I would do is to get a bottle of Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tim's One and Only Nitrfying Bacteria, if you can, some filter media from a established tank, all these will help seed the tankwith the relevant bacterias you need for dealing with ammonia and nitrite.
 
Second, get lots of fast growing plants such as floating plants, elodea and vallisernias, that sort of thing, these are good with helping to take out ammonia and nitrates fromt he water column.
 
Thats all I would suggest for now until we know what your plans are regarding the new fish.
 
 
 
And most of all do not PANIC, we are here to help with advice and suggestions as best as we can.

 

[Ch4rlie]

One question.
 
How did you get 8ppm in that tank?
 
Did you add ammonia from a bottle and mistakenly put in too much into the tank?
 
Or did you add plant specialist substrate that has nutrients / ammonia ?

 

[IanThePufferfish]

What sized of tank do you have?
55 Gallon

And what fish species are you expecting?
Figure 8 Puffers
 
 
 
I accidently added too much ammonia, I forgot to add the drops from the second bottle of my test kit, Which indicated 0ppm 

Would Tetra SafeStart work overnight? I really don't think it would but if you could tell me..
 
Thanks

 

[Ch4rlie]

Do a big water change to reduce the ammonia now, but how big a water change depends on what you decide. Having 8ppm of ammonia is too much no matter which way you look at it.
 
And do be sure when you do these tests, as you've found out, it can go wrong
 
To go with Fishless Cycle or go with Fish in Cycle?
 
And no, Tetra safe Start or Dr Tim's does not work overnight unfortunately.

 

[IanThePufferfish]

What fish could I get relatively easily and cheap to do the fish-in cycle?

 

[Ch4rlie]

No, thats the wrong way to do things. Fish in Cycle is NOT recommended, I only say that because you said you have fish arriving tomorrow and LFS refused to hold them......
 
 
Fishless Cycle is the recommendation for several reasons, much quicker and easier to cycle the tank and filter, no fish will get harmed during the cycling as ammonia, nitrite and the stress of changing water daily all contribute to making them suffer.
 
But again, I ask, are you still taking the delivery of the new fish you ordered, cancelled the order or will LFS hold them for a while?
That is the single most important question right now, once you decide what is happening with these fish THEN you can plan what is the best course of action.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

What fish could I get relatively easily and cheap to do the fish-in cycle?

 
The answer is none.  Fish-in cycles take a LONG time, and you are going to be dealing with more problems than you know.  Adding MORE fish makes the problem worse, not better.
 
 
Step 0:  Find a new LFS for the future.
 
Step 1:  Your ammonia levels are too high to promote bacteria growth, so you need to drop that immediately.  A 50% water change will bring it to 4ppm. I'd suggest you lower it with a 75% water change to make it 2ppm.
 
Step 2:  Adding a product like Tetra SafeStart or Dr. Tims will help the process, but not in 24 hours no matter what.  So, adding that NOW would be a wasted effort, even more so than the Stability.  So ADD NOTHING.
 
Step 3:  You need to get a colony in there as fast as possible.  You need to try to get some mature filter media from someone you know with a tank.  Decor from an old tank.  Add EASY TO GROW plants.
 
 
Step 4:  Wait as long as you possibly can to give the bacteria a chance to multiply to 'eat up' the ammonia.
 
 
Step 5:  Before the fish can go into your tank, you need to get rid of ALL of the ammonia.  So, you need to do a 100% water change before adding the fish.  I'd recommend that you do that about an hour or two before you actually add the fish.
 
 
Step 6: Add the SafeStart or Dr. Tims AFTER you add the fish (optional).
 
 
Step 7: Keep a close watch on the ammonia.  When the free ammonia starts to reach 0.05ppm, do a large water change to bring it down.  https/www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php  Use that link to determine how much free ammonia is in the tank.
 
 
Step 8: Water change ONLY as frequently as necessary, but be certain to water change EVERY TIME it is necessary.  When in doubt... change the water.
 
 
 
You can limit the amount of ammonia produced by feeding VERY SMALL amounts to the fish, and keeping them free of stress as much as you can.  Unless you have plants, keep your lights OFF on the tank for a while.  That will help them stay calmer.
 
 
 
We can get you through this.  Stay calm and trust us to guide you through it slowly and carefully.   A fish in cycle is never recommended, but it can be done successfully.  It just takes effort... and know how.

 

[Munroco]

You say they won't hold the fish for you. Have you paid for them? If not then there's no problem. If you have paid for them and don't pick them up what are they going to do?
 
I agree with Eagles - find another LFS. They have advised you wrongly and are unwilling to help you sort out the problem.
 
Just a thought, Maybe they can help with mature media.

 

[Goggy]

I agree completely with eagles, especially with finding cycled water from an already-developed tank. Puffers are extremely vulnerable to ammonia so doing a water change and putting in safe start is a good idea
(also i like how there was a "step 0")

 

[Ch4rlie]

After discussing with another member of the forum, we think this MAY work to get a tank cycled faster, though still means there should be no fish present in the tank for at very least 2 days, more would be preferable.
 
There is no hard and fast rule that you should only dose one bottle Dr Tim's One and Only Nitrfying Bacteria. The thinking is that TWO bottles of Dr Tim's would boost things that much more. Too much bacteria would not be of any harm.
 
BUT would not suggest to add a third or fourth bottle of Dr Tim's as too much bacteria addition may mean an excess of bacteria and the remaining bacteria may die off and thus that would create ammonia, so that would exacerbate the situation.
 
1. Ask the store to hold the fish for 2 days, he should pay for them in full as a sign of good faith.
 
2. He should get Dr. Tim’s at a double dose level plus the ammonium chloride.
 
3. He should do a huge, close to 100% water change, add the proper dechlor, preferably one which does not detox ammonia. Wait 30 minutes, add the live plants, add 1 drop per gal. of the ammonium chloride and all the bottled bacteria. He should have substrate in this tank.
 
4. Test in 24 hours. If ammonia is under .50 ppm, he can stock as long as he has 0 nitrite. If ammonia has not dropped to under .5 ppm, he needs to wait until it does, redose that 1 drop per gal. and then test in 12 hours intervals.
 
5. During the first 24 hours after the bacteria go into the tank, keep the lights off. The plants will be fine w/o lights for this amount of time.
 
Even if you do not see full zero ammonia at the end of 2 or 3 days, ammonia at 0.5ppm max that should just be about ok to add your fish by this point as the bacterias will quickly grow by this point.
Basically that means if you dose 2ppm ammonia and in 24 hours you have 0.5ppm and do NOT change the water at this point just before adding the new fish as you still need the multiplying bacterias and 0.5ppm should stay at that level for long at all, the fish can cope with this level short term.
 
If the cycle is successful as above in this short amount of time, do not fully stock the tank in one go, would suggest maximum of 75% of tank capacity, just to leave some margin for error, remember this is not a tried and tested method.
Then do not feed the fish for 24 hours. And then test for ammonia and nitrite after 12 hours after adding the fish. Keep a close eye on the fish at these early stages for any signs of ammonia / nitrite poisoning ie gasping, red gills, lethargic swimming, staying at water suface or at bottom of tank.
 
Of course once the fish are added to the tank, do NOT add any more ammonia.
 
Do bear in mind about the plants suggestion, lots of fast growing plants would be of good benefit as long as you leave the plants in the tank, if you want to remove or swap the plants then should be done these AFTER the cycling process and would be a suggestion to remove them in small amounts, not all at the same time as this could well disrupt the balance and possibly cause a spike. Do remember that there is also bacteria covering the plants so removing those plants too quickly could reduce the numbers of bacs as well, kind of a double whammy since the plants absorb ammonia.
 
A lot of this does depends on a number of factors, the date on the bottles of Dr Tim's could be important as the longer the bacterias have been in the bottle the more dormant they are, means will take longer to make them awake.
 
And finally, we still need to know what fish you have ordered or what is happening in regards to this order of fish. This could be crucial information as well as knowing what your water parameters are in terms of Gh and kH (you can find this information online from your local water authority) as well as what your pH is.

 

[Munroco]

Some great info there Charlie, just hope the OP sees it as he hasn't replied to any of the comments for a couple of days