Fish Are Dropping Like Flies

[Kombat]

29 US G tank. 4 weeks old. It has cycled. Tests this evening show 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite, 10 ppm nitrate, and 7.6 pH. Tank was cycled with a betta and 5 white clouds. Last week after the cycle finished I added 4 cory cats from Petsmart, I am now ashamed to say.

1 cory died within 3 days. Another died Friday. Sunday the betta's tail fin was tore up. I put him in a 2 gallon tank and gave him some fin rot meds in case that was it. Today I come home from work to a betta with ick and a dead white cloud. When I returned from the petstore with ick meds, there was now another dead cory. I immediately put meds in the bowl the betta was in and the community tank. The betta didn't last another hour and is now dead.

So since introducing petsmart fish into my tank I have lost 5 fish. My question is what can I do to stop this? None of the corys showed any signs of ick. When the first two died I just thought they didn't adapt to my tank water well. But now that my betta came down with ick who knows plus one of the white clouds dying after being fine for a month. Am I doing the right thing in medicating the whole tank? The medicine I got is called Maracide. It also says on the bottle to maintain normal filtration, but I've read to remove carbon filtration since this will take the medicine out of the water. What do I do?

Thanks,
Karl

 

[WILDER]

From what i'm reading all i can go on at the present is the betta torn up fin, if no fished nipped it i would say bacterial finrot, plus cory are very suspectable to bacterial problems as well. What was the ph of the store to your tank when you bought the corys.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Is it possible something got in your tank? Maybe someone sprayed air freshner near your tank, or tried to clean the glass with a cleaner? I would recomend you do several water changes, especially since they are dropping so fast with no sign of illness.

Other things to look for, are they scraping on anything in the tank, are they breathing rapidly, any red streaks or fuzz?

 

[jason_coggins]

this kind of happened to me

ive decided to get a quarantine tank now to avoid this problem
they are pretty inexpensive and save a lot of stress (more importantly fish stress)

 

[Bloo]

The fault is not necessarily PetSmarts. Four cories in a 4 week old tank is quite a bio-load to add.
New tanks are not very giving in changes and stabilizing itself thereafter.
This could have stressed the other fish too. Bettas are notoriously susceptible for any illness doing the rounds and are generally no the the best responders to treatment.

Being from the UK, I'm not familiar with Maracide, but whatever you medicate, you have to remove the carbon filtration while medicating.

Should in future you get another betta again, you should check with the people over in the bettas section, because I know bettas are also very sensitive to most medications and often die as a result of normal strength use. The fact that it then developed ich too, is probably a sign that it was majorly stressed out.

Do your remaining fish show any signs of illness ?
I would suggest a 25% water change in any event. But don't do too many, as this will no doubt stress the fish out too.

Best of luck

 

[Kombat]

tttnjfttt - Not that I know of. There's only a TV near it so I don't know how anything could have gotten in the tank. I don't see them scraping either.

Jason22 - I'm thinking of a quarantine tank too now.

bloozoo2 - I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I read everywhere only add a few fish at a time, and to me 4 is a few. Do I just accept that some fish are going to die the first few months? Do I add some hardy cheap fish like Zebras in for now knowing I won't keep them longterm? Also, the betta did drop to the bottom shortly after I put the Maracide in. Now that you mention that I wonder if that is what killed him. He seemed mostly normal (other than the ick) before that though a bit lethargic.

The young girl at Petsmart apparently was too busy chiding me for having a Betta in a community tank and forgot to mention that I shouldn't use the normal dose of medicine.

Karl

 

[Bloo]

Another question Kombat - is your tank heated ? And if so, to what temperature ?
White Clouds are coldwater fish. Bettas and corys (most) are tropical / subtropical. What corys do you have ?

Bettas are generally not recommended for community tanks, but I have a female in mine and she gets along just great. Males are almost certainly better off in their own tanks with very little current - as their long fins are are a great temptation to many fish to nip.
So if you do get a betta again, think carefully - not all bettas are the same in terms of being community fish.

Corys produce a fair amount of waste and are indeed a fairly heavy bio-load for a brand new tank to adjust to. Therefore it would have been better to wait longer before adding them.....

No, you shouldn't just accept that some fish die in the first few months. But it's really difficult for a beginner to get it all right first time round. Many fish do far better in more mature established tanks - around the 6 month mark or so.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Kombat]

Another question Kombat - is your tank heated ? And if so, to what temperature ?
White Clouds are coldwater fish. Bettas and corys (most) are tropical / subtropical. What corys do you have ?

Bettas are generally not recommended for community tanks, but I have a female in mine and she gets along just great. Males are almost certainly better off in their own tanks with very little current - as their long fins are are a great temptation to many fish to nip.
So if you do get a betta again, think carefully - not all bettas are the same in terms of being community fish.

Corys produce a fair amount of waste and are indeed a fairly heavy bio-load for a brand new tank to adjust to. Therefore it would have been better to wait longer before adding them.....

No, you shouldn't just accept that some fish die in the first few months. But it's really difficult for a beginner to get it all right first time round. Many fish do far better in more mature established tanks - around the 6 month mark or so.

Hope that helps a bit.

Well, the heater is set to 76, but the thermometer says 81. I can't lower the heater any more. My corys are a false julii, agassazi, and a peppered I believe. I got the White Clouds because I heard they are good cycling fish. I was going to find them a new home eventually anyway since I don't particularly like them. I find them rather dull.

Ok. So here is what I am thinking. The corys are dying possibly because of bio-overload. The betta got ick from stress. I moved him from the heated tank to his old bowl which is NOT heated so I could medicate him. I wonder if the stress of the temp change brought on the ick. So I am wondering if there is ick in the main tank at all now. So maybe without the betta and one white cloud the remaining corys can survive. And in a couple weeks add more fish. My other fish I want to get are a pair of blue rams and a small school of tetras. I am thinking of replacing the betta with a rainbow shark or red-tailed shark. Not right now, but eventually in the months ahead.

Karl

 

[Kombat]

This may be a dumb question, but does the fact that my thermometer says 81 while my heater is set to 76 indicate my heater is not a great one? I can't turn it any lower. It has just two settings. 76 and 82. I had another White Cloud die last night so I wonder if they are now succumbing to the high temp. I've read they can take high temps for short periods so I wonder if now 4+ weeks later they just just can't take it anymore. My 3 remaining corys are still alive. So I am down to 3 WCs and 3 Corys.

Another question. Could poor plants be the problem? I have 2 clumps of Anacharis, 2 clumps of Comboba (sp?), and 2 thick-leaved grassy plants. The only light I have is a 20-watt Aqua-Glo for a 29 US Gallon tank. I know I need to upgrade it if I seriously want live plants. The Cambomba are doing fine, but the Anacharis and grassy stuff are not. The Anacharis looks leggy and the bottoms are brown. Some of the grass is turning brown and some leaves look dead. Could the poor plants be affecting water quality to the point that fish are dying?

Thanks,
Karl

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Kombat

Let me ask you a few additional questions that might shed some light on this matter.

What kind of corys are they?

Are you sure you have ich in your tank? If it is ich, it will look like salt was sprinkled on the fish. Do the corys have any symptoms at all? Did the one that died have any or did he just turn up dead?

Is your heater keeping the temperature constantly at a high temperature or is it going up and down?

Have you done anything to adjust the pH?

We need to sort out if you have a bacterial infection or ich going on or if your fish have both. The treatment is very different and so it's important to make a good diagnosis before going further.

 

[Kombat]

Hello.

The corys are 1 each peppered, false jullii, and I think assazzi (sp?).

I know the Betta that was in there had ich, though it only showed after I moved him because of fin damage. The corys and white clouds that have died showed no signs of disease. The last cory that died was fine, swimming normally, looking for food on the bottom, etc. An hour later it was dead.

The temp is constantly at 81.

I have not done anything to adjust the pH.

I did put some plant fertilizer in for the first time the day before I had the big die off (Saturday). Don't think that would have anything to do with it. I believe it's called Leaf-Gro.

Karl

 

[WILDER]

Could of been the plant stuff, do you use the full dose.

 

[George Farmer]

It won't be the plant fertiliser and I doubt it is the plants dying. You'd need a lot dying plants to cause enough pollution to kill fish.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Kombat

First, let's talk about the tank itself. If it went through a period of cycling where the ammonia went up, then the nitrite went up and then they fell and the nitrate went up, it's cycled and has enough beneficial bacteria to support the fish that cycled it or others of similar size. If the ammonia didn't rise when you added the additional fish, then the beneficial bacteria was sufficient to accommodate them and adding them was not the problem in itself. Corys are not especially big waste producers and four of any small fish should not have been that big of a problem that quickly.

Your heater could be a cause of the problem, at least as far as the corys and the white clouds go. They both need cooler water. I suggest you replace it, or since the betta is gone, take it out for now. If your room temperature is consistent and the water gets no lower than between 72 to 75 degrees F. the kind of corys you have will be fine. I'm not sure which ones died, but the peppered cory and the C. trilineatus (false julii) will be fine even lower than that. The C. agassizi can take temperatures of between 72 and 79 degrees.

Corys suffer during shipment, especially if they were wild caught ones, and the hardest part of keeping them is getting them settled in at the beginning. It's very possible that they were overly stressed when you bought them and that nothing you could do would have saved them except possibly having the water temperature lower. And that alone might not have made any difference either.

Now, about the ich and/or bacterial infection. Corys do not get ich, so that is not their problem, but the other fish could get either. Since your betta had torn fins, it's possible it had a symptom of a bacterial infection called finrot. This often looks like ich too, and that's why I asked. Corys can show symptoms such as that or just quickly die from it.

If you cycled the tank with the betta and the white clouds, the chemical changes caused stress to them and so did the higher than normal temperature. Bacteria that would not ordinarily be harmful can infect the fish after periods of stress weaken their immune systems. High temperatures allow these bacteria to multiply quickly and the progress of their damage becomes speeded up. The new corys would have arrived in weakened condition too, and so would have been caught up in the same problem. Bacterial infections can be treated with lots of water changes, cooler temperatures, and tetracycline, or kanamycine, or other medicines that are available.

If you have an ich infestation, you'll want to get rid of it before adding more fish. This is done by keeping the temperature up, adding the medication and also by adding about one TBS of salt per 5 gallons of water. This will take a few weeks to eliminate completely. It would be a good idea to read up on the life cycle of ich so you understand what is happening. Then you can gradually begin to add more fish.

During this period of treatment, be sure to test your water regularly and do water changes and bottom cleanings as needed. When you do, add medicine and salt to bring the level back up to where it needs to be. Salt will only be eliminated through water changes, so only add enough to replace what you took out.

Now, here's where you stand with this, as near as I can tell. You have a cycled tank, which is a good thing. Now you have to determine if you want to treat it for bacterial infection or ich. Because of the differing methods of treatment, it's not likely that you will be successful doing both.

Let me say one more thing. Please don't feel bad that this happened to you. It's not unusual for beginners to have rough spots when they are first starting out and yours is no worse that many others'. Take your time, be patient a little longer and treat the conditions you now have, and in the long run all will be well. This is a great hobby and their are many good people who will help you along.

Good luck with this.

 

[Kombat]

Thanks Inchworm. I bought a new heater last night. I set it to 79 and sure enough this morning the thermometer said 79. Bad heater I guess. I'll drop it another couple degrees tonight. I didn't want to drop it too much in one day.

I've been treating the tank for ich all week. The last treatment is tonight. I might do a water change first. My filter is a penguin. I don't know if know them at all, but the mechanical and chemical media are attached, so I had to remove both during medication. So my tank has been only getting biological filtration all week. I also tested the water last night to make sure the medicine wasn't killing off the good bacteria, and everything still looked good.

Thanks again!!

Karl