Fish Ammonia Emergency!

[bever_lee]

Hi,
I just recently bought a new 20 gallon fish tank, and hoped to move my 5 black tetras, my zebra danio and my mini pleco Sammy over to it once I had established a satisfactory bacterial growth and the ammonia levels were at zero. I read on the internet that it is recommended to transfer some materials from the old tank to the new one so that they will introduce the nessisary bacteria. I also removed some water from my old tank (about 15%-20%) and moved it to my new one for this reason. However, in my excitment over the new tank, while refilling my old tank with tap water I forgot to dechlorinate. My suspicion is that this may have caused the bacterial levels in the 12 gallon tank to decrease, thereby increaseing deadly ammonia levels. When I woke this morning I found 4 of my black tetra's dead (they sleep at the bottem of my tank), one of them is sick, my beloved pleco Sammy is sick, and my zebra danio who tends to stay near the top of my tank is completely fine.
My dilemma is what should I do with the sick fish? Keep them in the old tank, or move them to the now functional 20gallon tank? Please help me!! I really don't want my pleco or last tetra to die!

 

[vinylman]

Unfortunately, transferring water from a mature tank does nothing; bacteria live in mature filters, so you'd have been much better putting the old filter in the new tank and running it side by side with the new one for a few weeks.

 

[scooterchick]

Got any water stats? Even without stats my inclination would be to move the fish to the new tank WITH the filter from the old tank. It's unlikely that amonia has killed your fish, more likely chlorine. Don't clean your filter inbetween moves, just stick straight from one tank to the other, then move the fish. make sure the temperature is exactly the same.

 

[bever_lee]

thanks for the help!
I've moved my filter over to the new tank so hopefully things will improve.
Oh and to answer your questions about stats, ammonia was at zero when I checked both tanks, but I did get the sample from the top of the tank rather then the bottom (I never feel good about putting my hands in the tank, in case they have soap on them or something, and I didn't want to desturb my sick pleco). I don't have a nitrate tester yet, but I'll probably buy one sometime later today.
Just one more question, I've bought a bacterial supplement by "top fin", would it help if I started adding this to my new tank?

 

[-germ-]

In my experience; that is 3 fish in cycles including plecos, hillstream loaches other non-hardy fish....
Water changes make ALL the difference, unless the pleco is so stressed that you think alot of water changes'd kill it i'd do very regular small water changes...
10% every 2-3 hours or so.....
ps; don't shout at me, i disagree with fish in cycling, unless you really, really know what you are doing it isn't worth the risk, or effort...

 

[-germ-]

Can you get to a LFS anytime soon?
Not sure what the tme is in canada....
If you can... i'd personally get a seachem purigen pad, run this in one filter in unison with the other... check the tank stats every hour, in 2-3 all toxins should be nil in the tank.
This will (however) have begun to kill off the bacteria in your other flter, so put this in your other tank, get fishless cycling with that one and monitor the stats of the tank with the purigen pad in daily...
SeaChems prime may be useful as well for emergencies...
Sorry if i've offended anyoe, just trying to help..

 

[rdd1952]

It sounds as if there is something other than ammonia that has killed the fish. I also don't think forgetting the dechlorinator had much of an effect. With it being diluted, it may have killed off a little bacteria, but it wouldn't have been a major amount. Chlorine will also disipate from the water in about 24 hours, faster if there is aeration.

It also shouldn't matter where you take the water sample from. I guess technically, there could be slightly more ammonia near the bottom but most filters pull from the middle of the tank and the input is generally at the top of the tank so the water should be very well mixed. As for the test results on the new tank, unless you already added fish or added an ammonia source, you would not see any ammonia reading unless it was in the water you filled it with.

As for the bacteria supplement, you can use it if you like but the general opinion on those products is that they are useless. It probably won't do any harm but won't do any good either. Best bet would be to return it for a refund.

 

[rdd1952]

if you can... i'd personally get a seachem purigen pad, run this in one filter in unison with the other... check the tank stats every hour, in 2-3 all toxins should be nil in the tank.

The problem with those pads is that they prevent a tank from cycling. They remove the ammonia before it can be processed. I would definitely not use anything that removes ammonia and prevents cycling except in dire emergencies.

 

[davethe nut]

i got a 160L tank and im having big probs wit Ammonia i cant get it down when i first set up the tank it was all ok for 2 week then i put fish in as ya do
now i cant get it sorted i test it every other day i had a filter called XP1 and i was thinking its to small so i got one that can handle a 300L tank will this help with the Ammonia ? and yes i am a noob

 

[-germ-]

Agree with RD fully, but (1) if you are convinced that the ammonia IS the problem(2) AND you can run your second filter in the other tank, in order to get it (3)properly cycled, without fish...
Then its definately worth doing, but only if these criteria are fulfilled....
I think?

 

[rdd1952]

You will need to start doing daily (several times daily if necessary) water changes of 15 to 25 percent until you get the ammonia and nitrite levels down below .25 ppm. The problem you ran into is that running a tank for 2 weeks after setting it up doesn't do anything (I know that's what the fish store employees and books tell you to do). Unless you add an ammonia source to start feeding and building bacteria, your tank is the same after 2 weeks as it was in the beginning. In a cycled tank you could actually set the tnk up, add water, get the water temperature stabilized where it should be and add your fish.

How many fish and what type do you currently have in the tank?

What chemicals or additives are you using?

 

[ArauraDiscus]

As some have said, transfering water doesn't do anything but make the new tank dirtyier. It's one benefit will be that the old tank mates are used to it's ph etc. You need to use the gravel, ornaments or filter media from your old tanks filter to trasmit the good bacteria. Good bacteria doesnt float around in the water very often, only the bad kinds do.

Also many people claim, the lower the ph the less toxic the ammonia as ammonia is transformed into ammonium compounds that are not nearly as toxic. I actually have had ammonia spikes in my 6.2 ph angel fish breeding tank, and didn't lose a fish, but In my 7,2 community tank, I had an ammonia spike early on and lost multiple fish. I'm not sure but this theory may have some backing.

 

[bever_lee]

Thanks for all your help guys! I've been doing frequent water changes, and I've been closely monitoring my ammonia and nitrate levels. So far everything looks normal. I've also bought a water deionizer to help purify and remove chlorine from my water, just in case there is something in the tap water that has been affecting my fish.
Don't worry -germ- you haven't offened me, I understand the risks of introducing fish to a tank that hasn't been cycled properly, and I never would have done it if I didn't think that something in my original tank was posing a threat to the lives of my fish.
I agree with other users when they posted some mystism about my problem, as they don't think that ammonia from my origional tank could have killed my fish. I'm becomming growly distressed about what is killing my fish. Despite my close monitoring of the new tank, I woke up to find my zebra danio dead today. Now all I have left are my black tetra and bulldog pleco. Sammy(my pleco) is still sick, he is very inactive and is clinging to the back corner glass of my new aquarium, rather then hiding out in one of his favorate cave places. Other then lathargia, he doesn't appear to have any other symptoms (although admitably its hard to get a good look at him). I have noticed that his mouth and tummy are really pale though.
I've considered that my tank may have somehow got infected with a parasite, fungus or other disease, but is this really likely if I haven't introduced any new fish for months? I must admit that I haven't cleaned my tank for a few weeks, due to stress from final exams, and recently I've had somewhat of a problem with algea.
Today I bought "Lifeguard -all in one treatment" which treats a broad range of external fish diseases; bacterial, fungal, viral and parasitic. Should I try giving these to help improve Sammy's health? I've heard these aren't good for bacterial development though, so I don't want to make the conditions of my new tank even worse... Please tell me what you think!!

 

[scooterchick]

Poor water conditions are the leading cause of fish disease and a few weeks is all it takes I'm afraid for conditions to detriorate to the point the fish become stressed and susepitible to disease. I'd get some anti-bac meds, a pale fish is a stressed fish. Good luck!

 

[ArauraDiscus]

Unless its a loach. The plaer the loach, the more dominant he likely is. Just fyi. Not always a good rule of thumb.