Firemouth Pair Growth

[kaivalagi]

Hi All,

I am new to fish keeping and currently have the following equipment (running since late October):

Roma 125L tank
Tetratec EX1200 filter
Hydor 200W heater

With the following in it:

2 x Firemouth
4 x Danios (rehomed soon I hope)
5 x Peppered Cory
3 x Oto

I will upgrade my tank when the firemouth's get to a decent size, I am guessing around 9-10cm or so or if they breed, which ever comes first

The 2 Firemouths are what seems to be a pair, albeit a juvi one so I know things can change. They seems to have moments of togetherness and then isolation from each other or male harassment, I am guessing this is normal.

My question is, based on the photo below, do you think that the female looks okay? She seems to be growing at a slower rate than the male, possibly through being pestered allot from the male? When I bought both of them they seemed around the same size but the male may have had 2-3 weeks head start in life...The male is approx 6cm, female 4.5-5cm. Also, is it normal for a female to be so dull in colour when compared to the male?



Also, once I upgrade to a bigger tank (thinking acrylic 100G or Trigon 350) and remove the Danios I would like to get a few more central/south american cichlids added to the community. I am currently thinking of going one of two ways:

1. Add 4-6 Cockatoo Dwarf Cichlids
2. Add a couple males such as a electric blue JD, acara etc
3. And/Or add some shelldwellers maybe?

Do these ideas look like trouble? I would expect that the Firemouth pair would be adult size by then and the new additions would be Juvis...

Thanks for any feedback

 

[rdp50734]

females generally have less colour and are smaller than the males in most species! I wouldn't worry about it! Dwarf cichlids may get bullied, jack dempsey should be ok when small but it will get aggressive as it gets bigger. I dont know anything about shelldwellers!

 

[minxfishy]

They are both very young, however, it is the male of the species that gets the bright red colouration and will usually have longer extentions to the dorsal fins and anal fins.

Having male and female doesnt always guarantee a pair, however, if they do decide to breed, its usually around the 3" mark. They will then become very aggressive to other fish in the tank, particuarly the corydoras who will wander into their territory, so keep an eye out for that.

As regards to the upgrade, if you want to other cichlids, you should be ok with acara's, however a JD will likely be too aggressive for them, although it all depends on the JD's personality. The FM's, particularly if they do become a breeding pair will be too aggressive for smaller dwarf cichlids, like Apistograma or rams.

Shelldwellers are African cichlids and therefore have different water requirements and wouldnt be suitable to be mixed with South/Central American cichlids.

 

[Bebobb]

The shell dwellers require different types of water parameters than the other fish you have mentioned, so they should be out of the question when doing your upgrade.

 

[kaivalagi]

Thanks for your posts

Based on this and further reading I am leaning towards adding a single juvi male of one of these depending what I find available and how it looks:

• Blue Acara
• Rainbow Cichlid
• Green Terror

I may well add one soonish, what do you think? Any of those above 3 types a no go?

My current tank is only 125 litres (33 gallons), but I think that be enough space for 3 juvi cichlids to co-exist (e.g. 2 x firemouth, 1 x acara). The tank will be replaced in 6 months or so with something much larger, do you guys think it be an okay size for the short term whilst the fish are small?

 

[minxfishy]

Rainbow or Acara, do not add a Green Terror, they are extremely aggressive once they hit around 5" will grow to 12", likely kill any other cichilds and your tank isnt large enough for one, they require a minimum of a 55g tank for them alone with no other fish. However, saying that, a 125L tank is really only large enough for the two FM's and the other fish you have, I wouldnt recommend adding anything else, particulary as you do not know if the FM's will pair up or not.

 

[kaivalagi]

Rainbow or Acara, do not add a Green Terror, they are extremely aggressive once they hit around 5" will grow to 12", likely kill any other cichilds and your tank isnt large enough for one, they require a minimum of a 55g tank for them alone with no other fish. However, saying that, a 125L tank is really only large enough for the two FM's and the other fish you have, I wouldnt recommend adding anything else, particulary as you do not know if the FM's will pair up or not.

I think I will concentrate on looking after my firemouths (and other cleanup crew) and add an Acara once I migrate to a bigger tank, thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

 

[kaivalagi]

Okay, the Danio's are gone and I have one less cory now, one of the new ones didn't make it, just wasn't eating at all, the others are happy and fine. My occupants are now:

2 x FM
4 x Peppered Cory
3 x Oto

The friend whom I passed on the Danio's to, has a little bit of a problem with a bully blueram...she bought 2 and both are males.

She has asked if I can take on the bully blue ram, to leave all the fish in peace...I just wonder whether the blue will cause me problems or potentially not bully the fish (and hopefully not get bullied) in my tank because of the firemouths

What do you think? Would adding 1 male blue ram to my tank, that has history as a bully with other non-cichid fish, be okay? Or atleast worth a shot? If I take it, it will be on a 14 day give back guarantee

I guess the situation would be much the same as adding a Apisto for example, which is not the best cource of action as mentioned before. Do you think that behaviourally the blue ram might calm down in my tank but also not suffer at the hands of my firemouths? If a blue has attitude could it be put in it's place and co-exist with FMs? My FMs have not paired as such in that they are not bothered by the cories in my tank going all over, although who knows what's next...

I think I might just have to take the fish on anyway and see, my friend is quite distressed about her other fish, I doubt anything else in my tank will come to harm so worst case I am left off where I started and my friends fish communtity are safe, not the best situation but I think the best option - either that or my friends take the fish back to the store...

 

[meguro]

how long have the 2 rams been in the same tank for? are you certain theyre both male?

 

[kaivalagi]

how long have the 2 rams been in the same tank for? are you certain theyre both male?

She's positive they are, I haven't seen them yet

Same tank for 3 days now

 

[philak]

If by Blue Ram you mean German Blue Rams then i think they probably need different water temps (28C min)from the peppered Corys you have 24-25C max). I have Peppered Corys myself so i did some checking on temps before buying them.

Hopefully someone like Truckasaurus can confirm this.

 

[kaivalagi]

If by Blue Ram you mean German Blue Rams then i think they probably need different water temps (28C min)from the peppered Corys you have 24-25C max). I have Peppered Corys myself so i did some checking on temps before buying them.

Hopefully someone like Truckasaurus can confirm this.

I have my tank running at 26C, corys, oto and cichlids are fine...a german ram blue would definitely need a higher temp? Are they really that sensitive that having 26C instead of 27/28C, would this cause them problems?

I am glad I've asked the question, TBH I am getting the impression that blue rams are really really fussy and so would seriously stress out with my FMs being there?...

Edit: don't like hard water? My KH is 10, GH is 18...more arguments against if they are really that fussy

 

[meguro]

It can take quite some time for rams to work out territory, although 3-7 days is more usual. If you're certain they're both male then it is territory based aggression, how big is the tank? If they're not both males, then it could be that the female is testing the males strength as part of a breeding ritual.

 

[kaivalagi]

It can take quite some time for rams to work out territory, although 3-7 days is more usual. If you're certain they're both male then it is territory based aggression, how big is the tank? If they're not both males, then it could be that the female is testing the males strength as part of a breeding ritual.

I am now certain they are both males, my friend confirmed she asked for 2 males (don't ask me why!) and they are indeed - the tank is a trigon 190 (bowed corner 190 litres - not much length any way you look).

Her tank has other things in it which I don't think are all that suited to this type of fish anyway, a male betta, some tetras, some danios, some cories and some cherry shrimp...all are getting harassed from what I can tell. My friend has fallen into the "well I asked the LFS and he said it was okay" trap which I am trying to get her out of. She's learnt the hard way as is most common in this hobby it seems

Unless there is zero chance of success I think I will take the male blue ram off her sometime this week, and see how well it gets on - it was introduced into her tank Thursday last week. Worst case it will go from bully to bullied, best case the FMs I think will claim territory of sorts (not breeding or anything yet) and it will have to steer clear...if things don't turn out good for the ram, and if it survives, it will go back to the store.

That will still leave her with one ram in her tank, albeit a quiet one (unless it gets confident like the other is when it is one of a kind in the tank)