Fertilising During Cycling
- Thread starter The Duke
- Start date
My guess is you can but it's probably best not to in case they interfere...
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Rather than argue with what KkAaNnEe wrote, I will quote a couple of posts from Tom Barr's site. If you do not know who he is is, Google is your friend.
In a planted tanks that is short of being fully able to process a full fish load there are a few alternatives. Stock a little more slowly (not all at once). This works fine. Or, you can complete the process with a very, very mild and short term fishless cycling process. You are only tryin to encourage a minimal amount of bacteria to fill the gap. You could also add a small dose of the proper bottled bacteria. But the odds are high that with a combo of plants and some seed media you can actually have close to an instantly "cycled" tank. I use the quotes because most of the processing of ammonia will involve plants and not bacteria.
In terms of adding fetilizers, others may see it differently. But when I set up a newly planted tank I tend to wait a bit before adding fertilizers. The plants need some time to establish and ferts wont be taken up the same way they will in an established planted tank. Most newly acquired plants, if healthy, have enough stored nutrients to do fine while settling in. On average I seem to remember something in the neighborhood of two weeks or so between planting and dosing my first ferts. New roots can be sensitive to root burn from fertilizers. The fist thing new plants in the substrate must do is put out new roots to get established. At this stage they are more delicate and apt to be burned by what other times would be a perfectly fine amount of ferts.
In a planted tanks that is short of being fully able to process a full fish load there are a few alternatives. Stock a little more slowly (not all at once). This works fine. Or, you can complete the process with a very, very mild and short term fishless cycling process. You are only tryin to encourage a minimal amount of bacteria to fill the gap. You could also add a small dose of the proper bottled bacteria. But the odds are high that with a combo of plants and some seed media you can actually have close to an instantly "cycled" tank. I use the quotes because most of the processing of ammonia will involve plants and not bacteria.
In terms of adding fetilizers, others may see it differently. But when I set up a newly planted tank I tend to wait a bit before adding fertilizers. The plants need some time to establish and ferts wont be taken up the same way they will in an established planted tank. Most newly acquired plants, if healthy, have enough stored nutrients to do fine while settling in. On average I seem to remember something in the neighborhood of two weeks or so between planting and dosing my first ferts. New roots can be sensitive to root burn from fertilizers. The fist thing new plants in the substrate must do is put out new roots to get established. At this stage they are more delicate and apt to be burned by what other times would be a perfectly fine amount of ferts.
KkAaNnEe
Apistogramma Macmasteri
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Argue with what exactly, I thought the op was referring to fishless cycling in which case having plants is not ideal
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Well I guess I must have made a mistake in how I read the OP's original Q which was:
So I stand by what Tom Barr stated regarding not needing to cycle planted tanks. The OP has started a planted tank and was cycling unnecessarily and I explained this. I then explained why he might not want to add ferts yet. The answer to that has nothing to do with the cycling part.
And then there is the question of why anybody would want to ask about adding plant ferts to a tank with no plants?
I must need glasses as I did not see the word "fishless" there nor in the post title.
So I stand by what Tom Barr stated regarding not needing to cycle planted tanks. The OP has started a planted tank and was cycling unnecessarily and I explained this. I then explained why he might not want to add ferts yet. The answer to that has nothing to do with the cycling part.
And then there is the question of why anybody would want to ask about adding plant ferts to a tank with no plants?
KkAaNnEe
Apistogramma Macmasteri
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Im sorry but you're coming across very like you want to belittle my reply. Its a shame that you feel the need to enlarge the font as if we both need to read it as such.
I simply said *I* thought the OP Was referring to fishless cycling, in which case there would be no need to argue with my statement as I fully understand not cycling a planted tank, but I was under the impression the OP has already begun a fishless cycle in which they have plants in the tank and therefore its not ideal to do it in that way
I simply said *I* thought the OP Was referring to fishless cycling, in which case there would be no need to argue with my statement as I fully understand not cycling a planted tank, but I was under the impression the OP has already begun a fishless cycle in which they have plants in the tank and therefore its not ideal to do it in that way
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Sorry you took it that way. It was my attempt to make a point about paying attention to what is written so that a response addresses the question. You may be justifiably upset at my somewhat "rough" approach. But it has clearly not had its intended effect You did not say anything about fishless in your initial response any more than the OP did in the initial post.
I read the OPs question to be: I have a planted tank, it is being cycled, can (should) I add ferts now? If that was what is being asked, then your answer was off the mark and no help. Josh's was not much help either and mine was pretty comprehensive and gave explanations for each piece of advice. It even quoted a well respected plant expert often cited on this site.
I said I did not want to argue with you, all I wanted was for the OP to see what to do and to also understand why. But instead of letting things go you came back and made an issue of my harmless statement. I could have said it much less gently. And you did it showing you apparently had not paid attention to what the OP wrote by suddenly claiming a fishless cycle. So I was annoyed and hence the big letters. Again you came back again and this time you misquoted yourself. Plus, what you "thought" is sort of irrelevant as all folks can see what you have typed, not what you were thinking at the time.Sorry I hurt your feelings, but please try to do a bit better job if you want to help folks in the hobby.
If you think any part of my original answer to the OP was incorrect, please let us know why and I will either defend what was said or say I was wrong. I guess we are all done unless the OP has more Qs?
Fishless or fish in, there will be ammonia in a tank if it is being cycled.
I read the OPs question to be: I have a planted tank, it is being cycled, can (should) I add ferts now? If that was what is being asked, then your answer was off the mark and no help. Josh's was not much help either and mine was pretty comprehensive and gave explanations for each piece of advice. It even quoted a well respected plant expert often cited on this site.
I said I did not want to argue with you, all I wanted was for the OP to see what to do and to also understand why. But instead of letting things go you came back and made an issue of my harmless statement. I could have said it much less gently. And you did it showing you apparently had not paid attention to what the OP wrote by suddenly claiming a fishless cycle. So I was annoyed and hence the big letters. Again you came back again and this time you misquoted yourself. Plus, what you "thought" is sort of irrelevant as all folks can see what you have typed, not what you were thinking at the time.Sorry I hurt your feelings, but please try to do a bit better job if you want to help folks in the hobby.
If you think any part of my original answer to the OP was incorrect, please let us know why and I will either defend what was said or say I was wrong. I guess we are all done unless the OP has more Qs?
KkAaNnEe
Apistogramma Macmasteri
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Im not going to continue, I won't bother in all honesty, I come on this forum to talk, read, learn and give advice, there was nothing at all wrong with what I said but the fact you had to mention not arguing (about what I wrote) clearly shows that you felt you needed to just throw that in there for the sake of your ego and that you know better.
Sorry for making this thread ridiculously off topic The Duke, could you confirm whether or not you are fishless cycling and then the best advice can be given
Sorry for making this thread ridiculously off topic The Duke, could you confirm whether or not you are fishless cycling and then the best advice can be given
I will fully support the methods given here on TFF which is contrary to present ideas. The idea presented by TTA is simply too simple in its statements. I have found that certain tanks do not need a cycle, such as this one.
On the other hand tanks with only a few plants, like this lightly planted one, require a cycle to avoid killing fish.
I consider the simple quote of Tom Barr's post as misleading at best because it simply does not tell a new fish keeper when a plant situation can replace a proper cycle. I am a fan of Tom Barr and his methods but I doubt he would support this misleading advice quoting him as saying that a cycle is never needed if you have some plants. He is a plant person who naturally assumes that his adherents are also plant people. His statements should not be misinterpreted to say that a cycle is never necessary if you have a tank with plants in it. As a plant fanatic, he is always talking about plants using his growing methods, not "merely planted" tanks. Not one of us here are truly the plant expert that he is so none of us should assume that our own approach to substituting plants for cycling will be enough. I would bet good money that he would agree with this statement that I am making here.
On the other hand tanks with only a few plants, like this lightly planted one, require a cycle to avoid killing fish.
I consider the simple quote of Tom Barr's post as misleading at best because it simply does not tell a new fish keeper when a plant situation can replace a proper cycle. I am a fan of Tom Barr and his methods but I doubt he would support this misleading advice quoting him as saying that a cycle is never needed if you have some plants. He is a plant person who naturally assumes that his adherents are also plant people. His statements should not be misinterpreted to say that a cycle is never necessary if you have a tank with plants in it. As a plant fanatic, he is always talking about plants using his growing methods, not "merely planted" tanks. Not one of us here are truly the plant expert that he is so none of us should assume that our own approach to substituting plants for cycling will be enough. I would bet good money that he would agree with this statement that I am making here.
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