Ex. High Ammonia And Low Ph

[chainedfaith]

I left the tank in the care of a family member while I was away for a month; I test it when I come back and I'm at a loss.

I use an ammonia test distributed by aquarium pharmaceuticals, Inc. Its a yellow box, with the image of a hand adding drops into the test tube and reads between 0 - 7ppm
On the ammonia card color chart it between white/clear (0 ppm) and a solid yellow (6-7 ppm) and when I tested my water it turned the test tube water a light orange, which isn't even on the chart. I don't know if this testing kit is bad, or what- so i took some water to the local pet store and he told me that there was a lot of ammonia in my tank, his water had turned orange too when it was tested. He also told me that the Ph was low, which he said goes hand in hand with high ammonia.

I use the jungjle quick dip to test my Ph, the test strip is originally yellow before using it on the water; when i tested it, it didn't change. So the Ph is also very low.

So the pet store guy advised me to do a water change. I have a 30GAL tank and I changed about 8GALs, a little over 25% change of the water just then and added some cycle to the water as well, as advised by the pet store guy. I'll be waiting till after dinner to test it again.

I am at a total lost of how this happened, Im afraid my fish are all going to be belly up when i wake up in the coming days.

I checked for dead fish, there was none.
I checked the java ferns in the tank, their not dead.
I have two pieces of driftwood in the tank that I bought at Big Als.
And I use sand in the tank that I also purchased at Big Als when i was to Ontario this summer. This is the sand

In the tank I have a Bala Shark, Common Pleco, 4 Dwarf Rainbows, 2 Platys and a Pearl Gourami; so it isn't that the tank is over stocked.
I haven't fed the fish for two days now, thinking they might have been overfed, but i dont think over feeding would cause such a huge spike.


Please help

I just don't know what else to do.

 

[Pleccy]

Has your family member done anything to the tank while you were away, such as clean the filter or performed a water change? I would check the use date on the test kit if it has one, and try another brand. In the meantime cut out feeding completely and carry out several large water changes until the levels read 0 on the chart.

Also the pH will have no effect on the ammonia level, but a low pH will reduce the toxicity of it.

 

[chainedfaith]

That pump wasn't touched, I usually clean it every week or two depending; before I left i changed the carbon in it and put in a new filter as well just to set it up for the three weeks I was away.

I don't see a use date on the package of the Ammonia test; but it was also tested to the pet store and had the same high ammonia results.


How large of a water change should I do now? How many Gallons? And how often? Should I wait a day inbetween? Or change 15Gals (50%) tomorrow once the rest of the water I have is treated for the tank.

If the Ph doesnt effect the ammonia, what about the ammonia effecting the Ph?

I need to know how to re establish both levels, and I just don't know how; Ive had other tanks before and nothing like this has ever happened.
I was wondering if it had anything to do with the sand- this is the first time i have been using sand, as beauty as it is, its very very hard to clean.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

when you say you put in a new filter did you change all the filter media?

if so then that's the issue, you rarely need to change most media and should never change more than half at once otherwise you get another cycle.

have a read of the link in my sig 'whats cycling' which will explain some more about this process to you.

 

[chainedfaith]

I'm not sure on the type of filter/pump i use, but I think the term is a canister filter.
The carbon I had inside it was quite aging, I had it in there for at least 4-5 months so I thought to change it before I left.
The filter I am referring to is like a sponge cloth that goes around the carbon insert; i doubt that would effect things so much?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well firstly carbon is only active for about a day after going into the tank, after 4/5 months it's certainly doing nothing so you'd be better off filling that space with bio media such as the ceramic rings, bio balls etc.

there's a good pinned topic on media types which i'll dig out for you in a minute.

after 4/5 months the carbon will be acting purely as biological media as bacteria will start to grow on it after it's chemical functions have stopped, so if you imagine looking at all your filter media, roughly what percentage of it does the spongey bit you changed and the carbon make up? If it's 30% or more then it could have caused the problem.

link http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=139488

 

[chainedfaith]

I wasn't aware the carbon effects stopped after a few days; I just follow what the store owners here tell me, which was the change the carbon after 4-5 months?
The carbon filter itself its *quite* large, it takes up a huge portion much more then 30% inside of the canister, the sponge does not however, its quite small in space.

If this is the case, how will changing the water help?
If new bacteria needs to be established, how will changing the water make that happen?

I am browsing your thread at the moment about cycling.
I have a 29 Gal tank, so I need a quarter of the tank's size in fish inches? I think I have that considering my shark and pleco are sizable.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

ok it definately sounds like you changed too much of the media then, unfortunately the store have not given you very good advice there, very few people actually bother with carbon as a day to day media, it's great for removing toxins from the water but it works quickly so it's ideal if for example you've medicated the tank and want to remove the meds, you stick some carbon in, take it out 24hrs later and the meds will be gone. But after a few days it's not doing anything anymore and it ineffective as bio media compared to something designed specifically for the job. So keep some carbon in your fishkeeping cupboard but go out and pick up some bio media or some sponge and put it in the place where the carbon went.

the bacteria will grow of their own accord, water changes don't help that but what they do is reduce the ammonia and nitrite which are toxic to the fish in the tank. Effectively you're now in a fish-in cycle, what you are trying to achieve is bacteria growth, but your primary goal is to keep the water safe for the fish.

so your goal now is to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm, do as many large water changes as it takes to get them down to that level. If you need to do more than 1 change a day you can but leave it at least 1 hr between changes.

 

[Pleccy]

Carbon usually has a lifespan of around three weeks, after this it expires.

 

[tlef316]

i had the same thing happen in my tank a while back. Turned out that the following was the issue....

1) My tap water had NO buffering capacity
2) My PH slowly dropped over what was probably a few months
3) The PH dropped so low that the beneficial bacteria could no longer survive
4) ammonia levels skyrocketed, killing a few fish.

I know some will say that the benficial bacteria are not affected by ph. I have found this not to be the case. My Ph totally crashed (off the charts low on the API test kit) and all my bacteria died. I used the Kent buffering product to raise the KH, and my PH slowly recovered with lots of large water changes. After the ph got back to respectable levels, my tank went though a new cycle (took about 2 weeks) and now everything is ok again.

I'd highly recomend checking the KH of your water to make sure you have enough buffering capacity. If you dont, you'll be succeptible to PH crashes, which IME will kill your bacteria colony.

 

[chainedfaith]

I do have another filter on hand, it came with the pump.
I not even sure what it is, to be honest.

I don't know what you quite mean by bio media, though.


The second filter i have is called on the box, aqua-tech water polishing cartridge.
It looks something like this <img src="http/image.bizrate.com/resize?sq=160&uid=487080492&mid=133935">
but isn't as white media in it isn't as compacted.
So should I change the carbon filter with this one? Or just leave the carbon in?

Will adding a capful of cycle to the tank hurt it? When I make large water changes?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Carbon usually has a lifespan of around three weeks, after this it expires.

there's a fair bit of debate over how long it actually works for, the general consensus is not half as long as the manufacturers and fish shop would have you believe though!!

i had the same thing happen in my tank a while back. Turned out that the following was the issue....

1) My tap water had NO buffering capacity
2) My PH slowly dropped over what was probably a few months
3) The PH dropped so low that the beneficial bacteria could no longer survive
4) ammonia levels skyrocketed, killing a few fish.

I know some will say that the benficial bacteria are not affected by ph. I have found this not to be the case. My Ph totally crashed (off the charts low on the API test kit) and all my bacteria died. I used the Kent buffering product to raise the KH, and my PH slowly recovered with lots of large water changes. After the ph got back to respectable levels, my tank went though a new cycle (took about 2 weeks) and now everything is ok again.

I'd highly recomend checking the KH of your water to make sure you have enough buffering capacity. If you dont, you'll be succeptible to PH crashes, which IME will kill your bacteria colony.

you are quite right, i hadn't thought of that possibility, if the pH goes below 5.5 then the bacteria in the filter media cannot survive and as such you'll get ammonia. the test strips are hopelessly inaccurate, you could do with getting a good liquid test for pH, if you can do that and get us the readings asap then that will help.

I don't know what you quite mean by bio media, though.

I'm referring to biological media. I don't mean to patronise you so apologies if you already know this, but do you know how a filter actually works? The process with the nitrogen cycle and the bacteria growing in the filter to clean up the ammonia?

Bio media is media for the filter which is specifically designed to have the most surface area so that more bacteria can grow there, it's basically just a home for the filter bacteria colony.

there's lots of different types, heres an example so you can see the sort of thing i mean http/www.ukpetsupplies.com/Details.aspx?...amp;ProdId=2589

The second filter i have is called on the box, aqua-tech water polishing cartridge.
It looks something like this <img src="http/image.bizrate.com/resize?sq=160&uid=487080492&mid=133935">
but isn't as white media in it isn't as compacted.
So should I change the carbon filter with this one? Or just leave the carbon in?

sorry pic didn't work, can you try again!

Will adding a capful of cycle to the tank hurt it? When I make large water changes?

it won't hurt but don't hold out much hope of it performing miracles either! all reports i;ve heard of cycle are that it's useless, however if you already have some then dump the whole bottle in!

 

[drobbyb]

Just wanted to add something else. When your pH drops below 6.5 your nitrifying bacteria become drastically inefficient. After pH 6.0 they start to die off. This would explain the ammonia spike and explains how it might have happened. It seems that a pH drop like this happens to people who have a low KH (myself included.) To combat this I use crushed coral in my filters. This serves 2 purposes: First the crushed coral buffers your water by leeching minerals, and secondly it provides a place for nitrifying bacteria to colonize since it is so porous. It also will raise your pH slowly allowing your fish to adapt to the changing conditions.

Hope that helps!