benzenering
New Member
How long can the beneficial bacteria survive in an established tank without fish? I'm looking to do a barb tank after my last current fish "kick the bucket". Any ideas?
Established Tank
- Thread starter benzenering
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ShinySideUp
Fish Herder
They won't. Not, that is, unless you feed the bacteria.
But then what will be happening as your older fish die off is that the bacteria will die off according to the amount of food available. After the last fish has gone you should have no problems if you immediately start to introduce your new species bearing in mind that the bacteria will only be sufficient to deal with the waste from the last few 'old' fish. Therefore you should build up your new population over a few weeks to give the bacteria enough time to accommodate the new waste produced.
But then what will be happening as your older fish die off is that the bacteria will die off according to the amount of food available. After the last fish has gone you should have no problems if you immediately start to introduce your new species bearing in mind that the bacteria will only be sufficient to deal with the waste from the last few 'old' fish. Therefore you should build up your new population over a few weeks to give the bacteria enough time to accommodate the new waste produced.
My first comment is that there are many species of bacteria in an aquarium, and killing them off "naturally" is not as easy or simple as we used to believe. Your question, benzenering, is probably with respect to the bacteria that handle ammonia and nitrite, what we call the nitrification bacteria. There are also the de-nitrification bacteria. There is more organic waste in a tank without live fish than you might think, and the nitrifying processes will continue for months. These bacteria can also go into a sort of hibernation, awaiting better times. This is all very simplistic, but the point is that they will not all disappear provided you leave the substrate. You can also leave the filter running; if you do shut it down, I would clean it before re-starting with new fish.
I have a permanent running tank that I use to quarantine new fish. This tank has some live plants and a sponge filter. I do a 50% water change weekly, and add a dose of liquid plant fertilizer after the water change. It can run like this for several months, even a year, without fish. Then when I add new fish, I have no nitrifying issues as the tank is established. The plants handle much of the ammonia of course, but there is no doubt but that the bacteria are able to continue very rapidly.
Byron.
I have a permanent running tank that I use to quarantine new fish. This tank has some live plants and a sponge filter. I do a 50% water change weekly, and add a dose of liquid plant fertilizer after the water change. It can run like this for several months, even a year, without fish. Then when I add new fish, I have no nitrifying issues as the tank is established. The plants handle much of the ammonia of course, but there is no doubt but that the bacteria are able to continue very rapidly.
Byron.
OP
OP
benzenering
New Member
Very good info...thanks for the help!
To continue the discussion on bacteria recovery...there was an article on the PFK blog a couple years back, here is the link:
http
/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4780&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=February_10_2012&utm_term=Think_you_know_filter_bacteria?_Dream_on…&utm_content=html
There have been further studies since the one cited therein, all confirming much of the data. One of our members, TwoTankAmin, has researched extensively in this area, and if he sees this he may add more, but here is a short excerpt from the afore-mentioned article.
AOBs die in absence of ammonia – nope.
Another ‘folk wisdom’ follows that without a continuous food source, AOBs will soon starve, die, and it’s game over. A scout around various forums reveals that the usual time suggested by well-wishers (myself included) hovers at about eight hours before the Nitrosomonas will turn their tiny starved toes up.
Again, the research forces a rethink. It’s noted that Nitrosomans europa can be starved for weeks or months, and then when placed in ideal conditions (in this case experimental ones, admittedly) regain their abilities to oxidise ammonia within just a few minutes. Older studies put forward a more lingering timescale before reactivity, over 150 hours before oxidising is properly resumed, but the fact remains that the AOBs are bouncing back from hardship.
But, and it is a but that can’t be ignored, there is more to this than may meet the eye. Although the recovery of single cells can be rapid, an entire population may take somewhat longer to emerge. And autotrophs are notoriously slow at ‘dividing and conquering’.
Different Nitrosomonas bacterial strains reactivated at different rates, and what seems to have some consistency is the longer the time in starvation, the longer the time for recovery.
http
/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4780&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=February_10_2012&utm_term=Think_you_know_filter_bacteria?_Dream_on…&utm_content=htmlThere have been further studies since the one cited therein, all confirming much of the data. One of our members, TwoTankAmin, has researched extensively in this area, and if he sees this he may add more, but here is a short excerpt from the afore-mentioned article.
AOBs die in absence of ammonia – nope.
Another ‘folk wisdom’ follows that without a continuous food source, AOBs will soon starve, die, and it’s game over. A scout around various forums reveals that the usual time suggested by well-wishers (myself included) hovers at about eight hours before the Nitrosomonas will turn their tiny starved toes up.
Again, the research forces a rethink. It’s noted that Nitrosomans europa can be starved for weeks or months, and then when placed in ideal conditions (in this case experimental ones, admittedly) regain their abilities to oxidise ammonia within just a few minutes. Older studies put forward a more lingering timescale before reactivity, over 150 hours before oxidising is properly resumed, but the fact remains that the AOBs are bouncing back from hardship.
But, and it is a but that can’t be ignored, there is more to this than may meet the eye. Although the recovery of single cells can be rapid, an entire population may take somewhat longer to emerge. And autotrophs are notoriously slow at ‘dividing and conquering’.
Different Nitrosomonas bacterial strains reactivated at different rates, and what seems to have some consistency is the longer the time in starvation, the longer the time for recovery.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Basically, Byron hit it on the head. The nitrifying bacteria do not form spores, they reproduce by dividing. So it they did not have a "strategy" for surviving bad times, they would have been wiped out a very long time ago.
The most important factor in determining how well and for how long the bacteria can survive periods of starvation depends upon what condition they are in when they are forced to "shut down." As long as the bacteria are not allowed to dry out completely, they can be pretty hardy in our tanks.
If you want to read more about this topic than you imagined existed, have a peek here: Strategies of aerobic ammonia-oxidizing bacteria for coping with nutrient and oxygen fluctuations http/onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1574-6941.2006.00170.x/full
The most important factor in determining how well and for how long the bacteria can survive periods of starvation depends upon what condition they are in when they are forced to "shut down." As long as the bacteria are not allowed to dry out completely, they can be pretty hardy in our tanks.
If you want to read more about this topic than you imagined existed, have a peek here: Strategies of aerobic ammonia-oxidizing bacteria for coping with nutrient and oxygen fluctuations http
/onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1574-6941.2006.00170.x/fullSimilar threads
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