EMERGENCY HELP REQUIRED

[Tweety]

Please help. It seems all my fish are dying. I'll give you the full story.

They tank was fully fishless cycled before we added any fish. Then we added groups of fish week by week until last weeked (just over a week ago) when we added the 2 Angel fish.

On Saturday night we had our first casualty, a female Gourami, who had previously been the happiest out of all the fish. She fed as normal a couple of hours after our weekly water change and then my boyfriend noticed her dead just before the lights went out at 10 p.m. This upset me and he checked her for marks etc and found nothing so we put it down to natural causes. All the other fish seemed fine. No clamped fins, busy doing what they do.

They yesterday a Neon Rainbow was hanging around the surface of the water and by the time we'd been to the LFS to get a separtor he had died. I posted about this yesterday. I bought an airstone yesterday as an additional source of oxygen as I thought perhaps the cloudy water with the bacteria bloom (This is what I think it is given as my tank has just finished cycling) was restricting the oxygen. Yet again no other fish seemed sick or stressed. Except I noticed quite late in the night that the one angel that seemed to have a small amount of fur covering his body and on closer inspection his fins seemed to look like they were being eaten We did a small water change and treated the tank with some "all fish safe" fin rot/fungus treatment.

I woke up this morning to find my other precious female Gourmai head down gasping at the corner of the tank. I have just had to put her down. I've never had to put a fish to sleep before and as my boyfriend had gone to work I had to do it on my own and I was crying the whole time. I went back to the tank which is now really cloudy, milky even and noticed the angel (witout the fungus) was missing. I found her gasping head down behing the ship and had to put her down too.

Please help, I don't know what to do. I'm going to prepare some more water for another change. I have some declorinator (spelling? please forgive) and will attempt this change on my own if necessary as my boyfriend won't be home until 7. Luckly enougth I am working from home today.

Water parameters this morning: Temp 25, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, & Nitrate 25.
It's a Jewel 180 Vision Tank with a 600 pump,filter and I have put a 4inch airstone into the tank. This airstone has been on since I introduced it yesterday.

 

[Tweety]

Come to think of it we have only had problems since the water change on Saturday and the introduction of the Angels. We use dechlorinator and normally leave the water to stand for a day or too. Could there have been something in the water or have the Angels bought a disease into the tank?

The water has been cloudy since Thursday (I think, may have been Friday). So this was cloudy before the water change.

Oh an we did treat the tank with Melafix a couple of weeks ago for a Zebra who had had it's tail chomped off. The carbon was reintroduced after this and a 25% water change.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Hmmm, this is a mystery. I'm sorry you're having such a bad string of luck,Tweety, hopefully we can figure out what is causing your problems

The first thing that comes to mind is your dechlorinator..does it also remove chloramines? What kind of dechlorinator is it?

The sudden cloudiness is strange...

 

[Tweety]

Hmmm, this is a mystery. I'm sorry you're having such a bad string of luck,Tweety, hopefully we can figure out what is causing your problems

The first thing that comes to mind is your dechlorinator..does it also remove chloramines?

It says it does on the bottle and we have never had any problems when changing the water before. We have almost next to nothing in the way of chloramines in our tap water as well.

All the fish seem normal right now, but they have done all along. I'm between a hard place and a rock as to what to do. I still have the fungus covered Angel that now has strings of the stuff trailing behind him where is was barely noticable yesterday and the treatment for that is in the water. I'm trying to decide whether to do a 50% water change and replace the carbon to strip the medicine out of the water (but what about the obviously sick angel) Or whether to do a small water change, leave the carbon out and hope there is enough medicine in there for him. I was very careful when adding the medicine last night and got my boyfriend to double check I was using the right quantity and following the directions properly.

My other option would be to go out this morning when the shops are open to try and get another small tank, heater and pump etc to try and set up a hospital for the angel and remove him altogether. Not sure how much this would set me back though and funds are limited to say the least at the moment, but if you guys think this'll help I'm willing to give it a try. Anything so I don't lose anymore fish.

 

[wuvmybetta]

I would go with the second tank idea. You can pick up a 10 gallon for around 10.00 (US), just a plain tank so that you can seperate them.It may be cheaper to buy a kit though, since you need the filters,heater et..
Use tank water from the first tank, some filter floss and you're good to go (stick some extra filter floss/sponge in the filter right now to start 'seeding' it) If you think your community tank is stable enough to remove some gravel, that may help you along too. You're virtually cloning your first tank. Then do the carbon/water change on the big tank

 

[Tweety]

Ok. The shop opens at 10 so will go and get a tank then. Do you suggest a 50% water change. will that be enough? I won't vaccum the gravel as I lightly cleaned the surface of it on Saturday, don't want to disturb the bacteria too much.

Perhaps my filter on the big tank isn't coping and this is why the water has gone so cloudy. I don't know

Thanks for responding. Don't think I'll be getting much work done today somehow.

 

[arcticfox]

Hi Tweety, Im worried about the water being cloudy,you say it was cycled but Im not so sure it was and how many fish did you introduce at first? you should never put neons in a NEW set-up,you have only lost 3 are the others doing OK?, are you sure that the filter is working Ok? water changes only need to be done about every 10 to 14 days and then a maximum of a third of the capacity, you can but a product called safe water over here you know,and it consists of bacteria in suspension which will help till your tank is running properly,dont lose heart because you have lost just 3 fish even though it IS quite upsetting at the time, i never introduce any new fish unless I have done the water change the day before because they are coming from one type of water in the shop to another in your tank and sometimes it does happen that they dont take to that....take care will watch this thread with interest to see how you get on

PS Angels are really best kept one their own as they do fight,just bickering really to establish top dog sort of thing,just thought you should know that,also its not UNUSUAL for platies to die giving birth especially if its the first time so dont worry

 

[Tweety]

Hi Tweety, Im worried about the water being cloudy,you say it was cycled but Im not so sure it was and how many fish did you introduce at first? you should never put neons in a NEW set-up,you have only lost 3 are the others doing OK?, are you sure that the filter is working Ok? water changes only need to be done about every 10 to 14 days and then a maximum of a third of the capacity, you can but a product called safe water over here you know,and it consists of bacteria in suspension which will help till your tank is running properly,dont lose heart because you have lost just 3 fish even though it IS quite upsetting at the time, i never introduce any new fish unless I have done the water change the day before because they are coming from one type of water in the shop to another in your tank and sometimes it does happen that they dont take to that....take care will watch this thread with interest to see how you get on

PS Angels are really best kept one their own as they do fight,just bickering really to establish top dog sort of thing,just thought you should know that,also its not UNUSUAL for platies to die giving birth especially if its the first time so dont worry

Hi, Thanks for the response.

The tank was left about 5 weeks without any fish. I used the addind fish food thing to cycle the tank. I tested the water daily during the cycle as I was interested in seeing what was going on with the tank. When the Nitrite finally dropped we added 6 Platties. One was obviously pregnant and after having a few fry she died. The other Platties are all doing well.

Then the following week we added the Zebra Danios. The week after the Gourami, another week and the Neon Rainbows and Plec and finally last week the Angels. We normally do a 10-15 % water change on a Saturday, (before we've added the new fish) but I have still been testing the water in the week in case anything starts to go wrong and we always have water on standby. I figured better to be safe then sorry at this early stage.

All my levels have remained stable. And I have now lost 4 fish in 48 hours. This is what concerns me. I understand that I may lose one from time to time but this seems to be getting serous as apart from the fungused Angel none have shown any signs of illness and in fact have fed as normal.

I have only been feed flakes once a day, a small pinch at that as I don't want to overfeed and occassionally substitued the flakes for frozen bloodworm.

All the problems have started since the waterchange we did on Saturday but I don't know why.

I am busy heating up some water so I can do a change today and I will be moving the angel out of the tank and returning the carbon to remove his fin rot medicine that we put in last night. Not sure how I'll cope doing it on my own as the water is quite heavy even when split into smaller buckets but if need has it I will do it.

 

[Tweety]

When I do the water change should I rinse out the blue Jewel filter sponges in the tank water I have taken out of the tank to dislodge any bits of rubbish?

Sorry about all the questions, don't want to be doing more harm than good.

 

[CFC]

The simple answer is too many fish too soon, adding 27 fish in 5 weeks is a hell of a overload for a newly set up tank cycled or not, for the first 6 months i wouldnt recomend stocking even half that ammout. The cloudyness would have been a bacterial bloom caused by the sudden massive rise in ammonia being let into the tank which as you originally thought would have caused the oxygen levels to plummet, once this happened the fish would have been left open to any infections they are carrying much the same as we come down with colds when we are run down.

The solution is to just let time sort the tank out and dont add anymore fish for at least a few months, a few large water changes wouldnt hurt either.

 

[arcticfox]

Hi Tweety, As far as I can see you are doing everything right it may well be that the water you used for the water change was a bit heavy on the additives added by your water company, its not unknown,or it might be just a coincidence that the fish have died,these things do happen from time to time,thats why with community fish I always go for the youngest on display,to get the longest life from them,and they do seem to better than older ones ......If I told you how I do my water changes you would never believe me,but its how Ive always done them for over 40 years and have suffered no ill effects from it, do NOT overdo the water changes and do NOT fill the tank with different medicines,Im sure it will settle down soon, its possible that the fish had the diseases when you bought them as some things take a time to show up,above all dont panic,your doing ok from what you have said,keep us notified as to how things go

Ps As for the filter sponges wash them in water from the tank not under the cold tap so as not to kill the bacteria

 

[CFC]

do NOT overdo the water changes

Thats one thing i dont agree on, you cannot over do water changes. Adding fresh water to the tank cannot hurt in any way. I do a 25% water change twice a week on some of my tanks and will sometimes do a quick 5% water change inbetween as well if i have a spare hour or so on my hands, the result is bright clean tanks and no disease outbreaks or mystery deaths.

 

[Tweety]

The cloudyness would have been a bacterial bloom caused by the sudden massive rise in ammonia being let into the tank which as you originally thought would have caused the oxygen levels to plummet

Is it worth cutting their feedind back to once every two days for a week or so to ge the amount of ammonia produced to drop?

I'm surprised that I haven't had any readings of ammonia or nitrite if there are too many fish as this is what my LFS told me to look out for. I actually went on what they told me that I could add each group of fish each week until I was fully stocked.

I won't be making this mistake again I can tell you. I was thinking of setting up a small tank in my home office but the way I feel at the moment I'll be giving it a miss. At least until I've sorted out the main tank and things look like they are ok.

 

[CFC]

I only feed my fish once every two days at most anyway, unless its a breeding pair or fry fish dont need feeding every day. The reason you havent seen any ammonia spikes is because the juwel filters are extremely effecient biological filters that have space for masses of bacteria so the colonies can expand rapidly to take up the extra waste, unfortunately it is this effecience that is their downfall as low oxygen levels and rapidly rising nitrates are a common problem with juwel tanks.

 

[Tweety]

Thanks for you help CFC.

I'm completed the water change was about 64 Ltrs, 35%. This is the most our container will take for heating etc. I can know see into the tank and the Rainbow's are shoaling as they are suppost to and the Zebras are as confused as ever as to who they shoal with.

Even the Platties are making more of a show of themselves, they have been hiding away in the weeds at the back but coming out for food as normal.

It's surprising how much of a difference it seems to have made, even though they didn't look particulary sick or stressed before.

The carbon filter is back in to remove the angels medicine and the angel is in a small tank of his own. I'm not holding out much look for him as it looks like his balance is now starting to go.

I've put aside some water for a small change tomorrow (5%) and will do a small change evry couple of days until the cloudyness is gone for good.

Am I OK to leave the airstone on 24 hours a day seeing as I have fresh plants?

Thanks again for your help. I'll seek guidance here first in future before I listen to the LFS!