Dying Plants

[sundayseven]

HI,
I have some plants that are turning brown in the middle. leaves are curling up and dying off, yet the top and bottom of the plants are green and look healthy. Any ideas what would cause this? Too much fertilizer maybe?
thanks for anyone's help. i appreciate it.
ddh

sorry folks, i'll add more details
33 gal
Substrate is sand with a fertizer bedding found under the sand. I dont know the name of it, it is particular to the store where i purchase all my stuff, it basically looks like a giant charcoal insert for an aquaclear style filter.
The tank has been running about 6 weeks.

Residents include:
10 cardinal tetras
3 black neon
6 rasbora gracillis
4 harlequin espie
3 congo tetra
1 cherry shrimp
7 guppies
3 corydoras
1 white cloud
4 rummy nose

one light: life gro (if i remember correctly)
The plants in question : Wisteria, Anacharis and mainly ceretoptis siliquosa, that are the ones turning brown or slowly dying off but again only in the middle of the plant.

I have anubias that are doing really well, eleocharis parvulus is not doing that great, not quite dying but not really growing or spreading after 4 weeks.
I have two giant mossballs.
i also have a problem with algae...the long hair like type...its slowly taking over everything. Id like to get rid of it if possible.

what ive done so far (last night):
chopped out the bottoms of the siliquosa and replanted from where the plant seemed healthy.
reduced light hours....i have set the timer to go on at 9am off at 1pm, on a 3 pm and off at 8 pm. There is NO direct sunlight hitting the tank. Ive also stopped putting in liquid "seachem" plant food for now...
thanks again!!
d

 

[Mikaila31]

First the biggest problem I see with your tank is the stocking, IMO you have too many fish. Did you cycle the tank before you added fish? If you did, how did you cycle it? Do you know any of your water stats?

The fish could be creating the algae problem. They are also producing fertilizer for the plants. Which can cause algae, if the levels are unbalanced or very high.

I'm guessing the plants are dieing because of low light. How many watts is the bulb and do you know its kelvin rating? It may not be suitable for plants or it may not be enough.

 

[sundayseven]

First the biggest problem I see with your tank is the stocking, IMO you have too many fish. Did you cycle the tank before you added fish? If you did, how did you cycle it? Do you know any of your water stats?

I dont really know any stats, i dont even know how to test for that. Ive always had a small aquarium (fake plants)...never had any troubles (obviously), but i'm fairly new to having live plants.

What should i be testing for? and what tools do i require for these tests. I do have a PH tester.
Cycling:
I had taken water from the smaller tank to start off the 33 gallon. It ran for about 2 weeks, empty, i added the bio insert for my aquaclear. After the two weeks like this, i added some fish from the smaller tank (guppies, white cloud, black neons and cardinals), and gradually the rest of the fish over about 3 weeks. i never lost any fish. So i assumed i was doing ok But then the plants started suffering.


"The fish could be creating the algae problem. They are also producing fertilizer for the plants. Which can cause algae, if the levels are unbalanced or very high."

I also feel its over stocked....Honetsly, I assumed I'd lose some fish as I added more, but i never did...I'm waiting for the guppies to die off, they are well over a year old, and not re-producing. I dont plan to add anymore, and if i can move some to another tank, I will certainly do so.


I'm guessing the plants are dieing because of low light. How many watts is the bulb and do you know its kelvin rating? It may not be suitable for plants or it may not be enough.

I will check the wattage of the light. I also intend to upgrade to the 2 bulb model offered by hagen.

Hopefully this will help clear things out.

 

[SuperColey1]

Is your temp 22ºC or higher?

White clouds are much cooler water fish than all the others you have like Tetras!!!

As stated above you do have way too many fish and you won't make many friends with statements like:

I assumed I'd lose some fish as I added more

If you are planning to get more fish then wait.

earbashing over with

You have 18W light I would guess and this is gonna put you around the 0.5WPg mark which an expert may just about manage some growth but not a beginner (unless you have beginners luck. lol)

The 2 light canopy will certainly help bringing you up to the 1-1.2WPG mark which will leave you able to grow a lovely tank of lower to medium light varieties BUT you will also need to make sure you have good reflectors (polished metal and not the plastic white inserts)

After this I would suggest you use zero CO2 and zero fertilisers. The fish will supply the ferts for you and after your filter cycles properly then I would also suggest to stop water changes unless they are needed.

The tests you need to do are the basic 3:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate

When you first start a tank it will read for these 3 tests - zero

Once you add fish then the ammonia will start to move above zero.
Once some bacteria that eat ammonia start to colonise they will start to turn ammonia into nitrite so this will rise.
Once some bacteria that eat nitrite start to colonise they will start to turn nitrite into nitrate so this will rise.
Once there are enough bacteria that eat ammonia this will start to return to zero.
Once there are enough bacteria that eat nitrite this will start to return to Zero.
After the tank is cycled then you should have readings of zero for ammonia and nitrite but a positive reading for nitrate.

So buy a standard test kit for these 3 (Like API master test Kit) and once your ammonia and nitrite readings get to zero then you can stop doing water changes.

Until they reach zero then you should be doing water changes regularly (daily or twice daily) to remove/dilute some of the ammonia and nitrite as it is toxic to fish.

Andy

 

[sundayseven]

Thanks Andy,

That was clear and precise...I'll get on it straight away.

But just to clarify, my intention was never to LOSE fish, but in the past, and depeneding on the store i bought from, i have usually had casualties after a few days of bringing in new fish. So Id buy 4 cardinals and end up with 2, or 6 penguin tetras and end up with 3 or 4. So I was only playing the odds. I am quite pleased that none have died from the new place where i buy fish. And i suppose i learned over the years how to better introduce them.
Now I know what i'm dealing with, and i wont make that assumption anymore. I absolutely DO NOT intend to add anymore fish.

The white cloud is about 4 years old. Very Hearty, i cant beleive i still have it. It has survived 2 moves.

My water temp is stable at 78F.

I'll start by checking my lighting situation, and i can re-post when i get the exact light wattage.

thanks again
doug

 

[SuperColey1]

I would guess its you that have been killing the fish and not the quality of fish from the shop!!!

When you add fish you also add ammonia which is toxic to fish. This is because the bacteria colony in your filter wil only grow in relation to the food they can eat (nitrite and ammonia) so each time you add a fish the colony can then grow to consume the extra ammonia added which of course then gets the nitrite eaters growing too. This takes time and therefore you should keep doing water changes until you have got back to 0,0 again.

The more fish you add the more of a colony needs to develop and also will most likely take longer.

Therefore when you've been adding more fish you have probs been poisoning them too and some die which then leaves you with the same number and because the colonies were already there for this original number all of a sudden the poison is eaten again.

WCMM (white clouds) are the fish that should be in 22ºC or they (so I have read) live shorter lives.

Good luck on the plants and at least you now know the basics of cycling. This is supposedly why a weel known UK petschain limits the number of fish sold to 6 per person per day although they still sell the wrong fish for the wrong tanks and............yawn.

Andy

 

[sundayseven]

Agreed, it was more me killing the fish than the store...but some stores had crap quality stock, fish with Ick etc...The last Pleco i bought died after 2 days, when i returned it, they told me the whole batch had died....not very encouraging.
Anyways, like i said ive learned a bit as i've gone along. And i'm continuing to learn....

The White cloud is an ancestor of my smaller aquarium, which now houses only Tiger Barbs and green barbs. Previously, it had white clouds, my 3 black neons and guppies.

78F = 26C, so it is a bit hot in there for the White Cloud.....do you think if i lower the temp to 76 (24C), the tetras will be able to cope? Given my situation of having these two types of species, Is it wise to base my temp settings on one fish?

thanks again for your insight. it truly is appreciated.

doug

PS i like the 6 fish limit policy...they'll sell anything to anyone here in Montreal.

 

[SuperColey1]

The tetras wouldn't be affected by 24ºC but I think the corys would! Best to leave it as is seeing as the WCMM is the only cooler water fish in there.

Andy

 

[sundayseven]

will do...
the light is a 25W T8 "life glo"...i little low is guess...it will have to do until i get another lid.