Dying Fish

[jaystr1]

We have a 36 gallon SW tank. Two live rocks (about 18 lbs total), power filter, one 8" snowflake eel, porky puffer (2.5") and a small shirimp. The water is perect as far as nitrate, nitrite, PH and ammonia.

Last weekend, we bought a clown, and it died within 2-days. No symptoms. The puffer was introduced on Sunday, and now looks to be dying. The fins look a bit green. He was fine yesterday.

We have lost a total of 9 fish. 7 when the tank was getting set up (we did not know about cycling at that point). 2 fish have died since the water was brought under control.

What do we do?

 

[Great Lakes]

That is a good one Jay.

Unfortuneatly, water parameters can be fine, but still may contain toxins.

I am looking forward to getting a couple more tanks set up so I can get an eel, but as of yet, have not owned one. So I really can't say how hardy of a species they are as far as pollutants may go. If I am not mistaken, Puffers are fairly hardy.

1) Is the shop where you got your fish reputeable?

2) How well/long, did you acclimate your fish before intrducing them to the tank?

3) Your water source?

4) I would recommend a couple water changes a few days apart of at least 25%, then the same every couple weeks with a good source of RO water.

If your lfs is a good one, it usually boils down to some kind of toxin in the tank.

And did the eel molest them in any way?

GL

 

[jaystr1]

Thanks Great Lakes. Here are your answers each in response to your numbered questions:

1) Yes

2) Placed bag with new fish in it in tank for 15 mins. Added a bit of tank water and waited for 5 mons. Added more tank water and waited for another 5 mons before introducing to the tank.

3) Water is from tap. We use a conditioner and add salt before adding to the tank. No setting period though.

4) Since we had some toxit nitrite levels before, we have been doing a few 25% water changes per week. We did another last Friday while vacuming the substrait. Bought a Clarkii Clown on Saturday. It died Monday. Bought a porky puffer on Sunday, and it now seems sick.


As for a RO source of water, what do you recommend?

I plan to take a water sample to the lfs and have him test it for EVERYTHING. I only have the 5-in-1 test strips and strips for ammonia. Someone else mentioned something about calcium and phosphates. What do you think?

Jay

 

[veen]

i think you might need more live rock if you can get it. usually people recommend a pound of live rock per gallon of water, so for your tank try to have at least 36 lbs live rock.

did you notice any kinds of weird stuff on the fish before they died? for instance, did any of them have ick or a fungus of any sort?

i get my r/o water delivered from arrowhead, it's actually distilled water that's also been r/o'd. when i run out before the next delivery date i just go to my local rite aid drug store and buy 5 gallons for $1.50 of r/o water. many grocery stores and drug stores have cheap r/o water you can buy by the gallon.

hope this helps.

 

[jaystr1]

Thanks Veen.

I agree on the libve rock but need to take it slow. That stuff is expensive. Besides, the water tests fine and the bio filter seems to be in good shape.

I hear having a protein skimmer may help us. What do you think?

Question: We all know chlorine is bad, but how do you test for it?

 

[veen]

Thanks Veen.

I agree on the libve rock but need to take it slow. That stuff is expensive. Besides, the water tests fine and the bio filter seems to be in good shape.

I hear having a protein skimmer may help us. What do you think?

Question: We all know chlorine is bad, but how do you test for it?

yeah live rock is definitely expensive! but definitely get more as your finances permit.

i too have heard that skimmers are good to have. i don't have one as of yet, too expensive also =) i do have a fuge, though, which is in the process of breeding pods like mad!

what kind of filter are you using? perhaps your bio cycle hasn't completed yet or hasn't built up enough good bacteria.

also, are you using live sand? you mentioned substrate, i'm going to assume your substrate is live sand. if not, perhaps you can buy some.

as for chlorine, i'm not sure how to test for it. we just use conditioner and don't worry about it. but if it can be tested for, hopefully your lfs will be able to tell you or test for it themselves. i would also recommend getting a master saltwater test kit. they're a little pricey, here in the bay they run between $30-$45 depending upon the store and city you buy them from. but they last a long time and are invaluable for all sw aquarists unless you want to spend time running back & forth to the lfs to have them test for you.

your last resort may be to just leave your tank as is for another month or so and let it cycle w/o fish again. perhaps your tank just isn't completely cycled yet and that's what's killing your poor fishies

 

[Navarre]

As already mentioned, the live rock is by no means adequat for a tank of this size and definately too low for the fish in question.
A combination of this, no skimmer, tap water and innaccurate test kits makes me lean towards ammonia/nitrite spikes.

Although these items/equipment are costly they are also essential for the safe running of a marine tank (especially for fish like these). Rather than spending money on fish that will increase the biolad and thus strainthe systems rescources to its limit, its far better to add the required liverock, get a protient skimmer in action and Ro water for the tank. The fish you wish to keep are fish that are well known for creating huge amounts of biowaste and placing strains on filters. If these are the fish you wish to keep then these precautions really need to be put into practice before more fish are added.

Even though yor tests kits (and probably the test kits in the lfs) may show no toxins (ammonia/nitrite) that doesnt mean they have not been the cause of the deaths. Soon after feeding these fish will increase their ammonia output by up to 3 times their usual amount (which is well over twice that of other fish of similar size in normal circumstances). These fast surges in ammonia can usually be absorbed fast by a good filtration system but if the bioload is poor then it will take a few hours to catch up.. a few hours where the fish will be exposed to toxinx and burn the gills on the ammonia etc. This will slwoly weaken the fish each time the toxins appear and thus over time the fish will eventually succumb and die.

Before any more purchases are made i urge you to get the remaining amount of liverock for the tank and then get a skimmer in place.

As a last observation. A 36 gallon tank is woafully small for the fish you are trying to keep. The puffer needs well over 100 gallon as these fish grow extremly large; 36 gallon simply wont be enough. The same can ebe said for the ell butto a lesser degreee as they are not as active in their swimming. however the biload they produce is probably more than enough than the liverock in a 36 gallon system can sustain in its own right once fully grown. (i am assuming is a moray eel).

Sorry to sound so negative but preparation iand patience is teh key to sucess in this hobby, experience is good but it still doesnt mean you can cut corners (i should know as i tried this recently and lost 75% of my stock).

 

[Chac]

Hi jay

I completely agree with Navarre, the combi of the Tap Water, bad Acclimitisation , No Skimmer (Hugely Important), low amount of Live Rock, this would defo have an adverse effect on teh livestock in your tank.

As for adding more Live Rock, this is a must, but you are in a bad position, as if you add live rock to an already cycled tank you MAY cause a mini cycle to start, thus causing more stress on your fish, IMO the only anser is to get teh fish rehouse (Local Fish Shop) And get a good skimemr & more Live Rock ASAP

Del

 

[Navarre]

If you can be assured the liverock is well cured then it wont cycle.. but you must be sure of this (there are a few places that i trust in the UK for this). Otherwise i would suggest you need a 2nd tank where you can cycle the liverock seperately of rehouse the stock.

 

[Chac]

That is very true, but I certainly wouldnt trust my LFS with the life of my livestock

Del