snakes1989
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are they good for cycling a new tank
Dwarf Gouramis
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pokagon55
Fish Fanatic
Yea I agree with weaver, if you want to do a fish cycle than you should go with danios or white cloulds. Serpea tetrea's are ok. all your barbs are ok too. Just not the dwarf
Actually, standard sized gouramis are good fish to do a cycle with. They are very sturdy and can stand conditions that many other fish cannot. I've used pearl gouramis for this purpose and they came through nicely.
That being said, let me point out that most dwarf gouramis are selectively bred for color and are a little more delicate and high strung than their bigger, natural relatives. They might not do as well.
Also, keep in mind that just because a fish survives in less than great conditions, that doesn't mean it will thrive in them. When doing a cycle with fish, take your time and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia levels low. Eventually the tank will be cycled and more fish can be added. It would be a shame to sacrifice lovely fish just so you can stock a tank more quickly.
Good luck.
That being said, let me point out that most dwarf gouramis are selectively bred for color and are a little more delicate and high strung than their bigger, natural relatives. They might not do as well.
Also, keep in mind that just because a fish survives in less than great conditions, that doesn't mean it will thrive in them. When doing a cycle with fish, take your time and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia levels low. Eventually the tank will be cycled and more fish can be added. It would be a shame to sacrifice lovely fish just so you can stock a tank more quickly.
Good luck.
IovaykInD
Fish Herder
Mind as well use some feeder guppies. They are really hardy, and if you lose them, it's no big deal. You could even be a bit ruthless knowing that they can stand much more than other fish.
I will always maintain that cycling with fish is pointless, unecessarily time consuming and puts the fish through hell for absolutely no reason.
Do a fishless cycle. There's a link in my signature on how to do one but, basicaly, all you need to do is set up your tank, fill it up with de-chlorinated tap water, get the equipment running and, then, every other day or so,, add a tiny pinch of fish flake food or some small catfish pellets. Alternatively, you can buy pure ammonia to add on a daily basis (this is the less messy option).
This food will rot, releasing ammonia. This ammonia wills et off the cycle and, because you have no fish in the tank so don't need to do water changes or worry about conditions, you can raise the temp to around 83-85 deg F and, within 2-3 weeks, the tank'll be cycled.
At this point, do a 90% water change with de-chlorinated tap water and a gravel vacuum to get rid of any debris and then go and get your first couple of fish. MAKE SURE YOU'VE LOWERED THE TEMPERATURE BEFORE ADDING FISH!
Note that you do have to monitor your water params to make sure you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrItes and nitrAtes below 20ppm before you add fish. To lower nitrAtes, just do water changes. Ammonia and nitrIte will be 0 if your tank's cycled. However, as there are no fish to worry about, you need not do this daily and it only is realy necessary to ensure your tank's begun to cycle and establish when it's done cycling.
Raising the temperature increases the speed at which the good bacteria multiply and not having to do water changes means you're not disturbing any good bacteria and not removing any of the ammonia (which is the bacteria's 'food').
If you attempt a cycle WITH fish, it's likely to take 6 weeks, sometimes more, and you'll have to do water changes every other day for the most part to keep your fish alive.
I also don't like the idea that certain fish are 'expendable'. They're not. Just because something's cheaper or more common, doesn't make it's life less valuable. Also, keep in mind that even the fish that do survive the cycle will have suffered permanent damage (usualy to the gills from ammonia burns) and will be more susceptible to disease than normal.
It's also generaly not a good idea to go out and buy a fish on impulse just because it'll be good to cycle with. For example, a lot of people use white clouds but don't realise they're not actualy tropical fish. others go for zebra danios but don't appreciate that they need to be kept in a group of 5 minnimum and require a 20 gallon at least. Then there's those who use guppies or platies but don't realise just how prolificly these fish reproduce, quickly over-taking and over-stocking a tank. You also need to consider that the fish you use for the cycle could very well be incompatible with what takes your fancy later on.
IMO, it saves both you and your prospective fish a lot of stress and time to do a fishless cycle. Use the time to research what fish will work in your tank and make sure you are stocking with fish you actualy like - not just fish that'll suit your purpose
And, yeah, a dwarf is unlikely to survive the cycle. Avoid larger gouramies unless you know what your stocking plans are. Things like three-spots are extremely hardy but they are also highly aggressive and generaly won't work in a small or peaceful tank set-up.
Just to remind you once more, read the link in my signature about fishless cycling.
Do a fishless cycle. There's a link in my signature on how to do one but, basicaly, all you need to do is set up your tank, fill it up with de-chlorinated tap water, get the equipment running and, then, every other day or so,, add a tiny pinch of fish flake food or some small catfish pellets. Alternatively, you can buy pure ammonia to add on a daily basis (this is the less messy option).
This food will rot, releasing ammonia. This ammonia wills et off the cycle and, because you have no fish in the tank so don't need to do water changes or worry about conditions, you can raise the temp to around 83-85 deg F and, within 2-3 weeks, the tank'll be cycled.
At this point, do a 90% water change with de-chlorinated tap water and a gravel vacuum to get rid of any debris and then go and get your first couple of fish. MAKE SURE YOU'VE LOWERED THE TEMPERATURE BEFORE ADDING FISH!
Note that you do have to monitor your water params to make sure you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrItes and nitrAtes below 20ppm before you add fish. To lower nitrAtes, just do water changes. Ammonia and nitrIte will be 0 if your tank's cycled. However, as there are no fish to worry about, you need not do this daily and it only is realy necessary to ensure your tank's begun to cycle and establish when it's done cycling.
Raising the temperature increases the speed at which the good bacteria multiply and not having to do water changes means you're not disturbing any good bacteria and not removing any of the ammonia (which is the bacteria's 'food').
If you attempt a cycle WITH fish, it's likely to take 6 weeks, sometimes more, and you'll have to do water changes every other day for the most part to keep your fish alive.
I also don't like the idea that certain fish are 'expendable'. They're not. Just because something's cheaper or more common, doesn't make it's life less valuable. Also, keep in mind that even the fish that do survive the cycle will have suffered permanent damage (usualy to the gills from ammonia burns) and will be more susceptible to disease than normal.
It's also generaly not a good idea to go out and buy a fish on impulse just because it'll be good to cycle with. For example, a lot of people use white clouds but don't realise they're not actualy tropical fish. others go for zebra danios but don't appreciate that they need to be kept in a group of 5 minnimum and require a 20 gallon at least. Then there's those who use guppies or platies but don't realise just how prolificly these fish reproduce, quickly over-taking and over-stocking a tank. You also need to consider that the fish you use for the cycle could very well be incompatible with what takes your fancy later on.
IMO, it saves both you and your prospective fish a lot of stress and time to do a fishless cycle. Use the time to research what fish will work in your tank and make sure you are stocking with fish you actualy like - not just fish that'll suit your purpose
And, yeah, a dwarf is unlikely to survive the cycle. Avoid larger gouramies unless you know what your stocking plans are. Things like three-spots are extremely hardy but they are also highly aggressive and generaly won't work in a small or peaceful tank set-up.
Just to remind you once more, read the link in my signature about fishless cycling.
IovaykInD
Fish Herder
It's true that no fish should be expendable, but that doesn't mean you can use them to cycle a tank. I never did water change and my feeder guppies were still fine and are still alive. They have no damage to them, and breed like crazy, even during the cycle. I'm not saying it is right to use fish to cycle a tank, I'm just saying that you could, and it isn't too hard.
I, myself used fish (zebra danios) to cycle my first ever tank and they did all survive. BUT, just because a fish survives the cycle, even if it acts perfectly normal afterwards, doesn't mean it hasn't been harmed in any way. Like I said before, they are left with a higher susceptibility to disease and putting them through the torture and stress seems very inhumane to me now that I know there's a quicker and far more efficient alternative. Considering you are talking about guppies, your tank can't have been running very long either if they are still alive (as guppies have pretty short life spans) so it may be premature to assume they have not been damaged in any way. Irrespective of all this, there is absolutely no reason to encourage people to use fish to cycle with. I can think of close to no reasons for cycling with fish, and limmitless reasons against. Go for a fishless cycle - it's far easier, less labour-intensive, quicker, will not cause any fishy deaths, won't cause you or the fish stress and gives you a chance to consider carefuly what you want to stock your tank with and research it all carefuly first as well.
Either way you choose to cycle a tank is fine as long as you are in control. Cycling with fish is the traditional way and there is no reason to upset because someone might choose to use it.
If you want a quick cycle, spend the extra money and go for Bio-Spira.
If you want a quick cycle, spend the extra money and go for Bio-Spira.
dwarfgourami
Fish Connoisseur
If you want a quick cycle, spend the extra money and go for Bio-Spira.
If you live in the US, that is. Us unfortunate Europeans can't get the stuff.
As for IovayKind, I have to admit that your first post ("If you lose them it is no big deal") seemed to me rather more ruthless than the second post. To me, it is always a big deal if a fish is lost due to any action of mine; I would feel the same about a very expensive fish as the cheapest 99p danio: their wellbeing is my responsibility. In the second post you seem to have toned down your views quite a bit- I like the tone of that message a lot more.
Still, didn't see any point in using my platies for cycling, though: doing a fishless cycle I was actually able to arrive at the same stocking level a lot faster and with less worry than if I'd used the same fish for cycling.
pokagon55
Fish Fanatic
I do aree with this statement and wish I would of had the info. on doing a fishless cycle but as you know the info. given to a beginner is to use a fish cycle. Wish this was not the case but just go to your lfs and that is what you will find.I will always maintain that cycling with fish is pointless, unecessarily time consuming and puts the fish through hell for absolutely no reason.
Do a fishless cycle. There's a link in my signature on how to do one but, basicaly, all you need to do is set up your tank, fill it up with de-chlorinated tap water, get the equipment running and, then, every other day or so,, add a tiny pinch of fish flake food or some small catfish pellets. Alternatively, you can buy pure ammonia to add on a daily basis (this is the less messy option).
This food will rot, releasing ammonia. This ammonia wills et off the cycle and, because you have no fish in the tank so don't need to do water changes or worry about conditions, you can raise the temp to around 83-85 deg F and, within 2-3 weeks, the tank'll be cycled.
At this point, do a 90% water change with de-chlorinated tap water and a gravel vacuum to get rid of any debris and then go and get your first couple of fish. MAKE SURE YOU'VE LOWERED THE TEMPERATURE BEFORE ADDING FISH!
Note that you do have to monitor your water params to make sure you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrItes and nitrAtes below 20ppm before you add fish. To lower nitrAtes, just do water changes. Ammonia and nitrIte will be 0 if your tank's cycled. However, as there are no fish to worry about, you need not do this daily and it only is realy necessary to ensure your tank's begun to cycle and establish when it's done cycling.
Raising the temperature increases the speed at which the good bacteria multiply and not having to do water changes means you're not disturbing any good bacteria and not removing any of the ammonia (which is the bacteria's 'food').
If you attempt a cycle WITH fish, it's likely to take 6 weeks, sometimes more, and you'll have to do water changes every other day for the most part to keep your fish alive.
I also don't like the idea that certain fish are 'expendable'. They're not. Just because something's cheaper or more common, doesn't make it's life less valuable. Also, keep in mind that even the fish that do survive the cycle will have suffered permanent damage (usualy to the gills from ammonia burns) and will be more susceptible to disease than normal.
It's also generaly not a good idea to go out and buy a fish on impulse just because it'll be good to cycle with. For example, a lot of people use white clouds but don't realise they're not actualy tropical fish. others go for zebra danios but don't appreciate that they need to be kept in a group of 5 minnimum and require a 20 gallon at least. Then there's those who use guppies or platies but don't realise just how prolificly these fish reproduce, quickly over-taking and over-stocking a tank. You also need to consider that the fish you use for the cycle could very well be incompatible with what takes your fancy later on.
IMO, it saves both you and your prospective fish a lot of stress and time to do a fishless cycle. Use the time to research what fish will work in your tank and make sure you are stocking with fish you actualy like - not just fish that'll suit your purpose
And, yeah, a dwarf is unlikely to survive the cycle. Avoid larger gouramies unless you know what your stocking plans are. Things like three-spots are extremely hardy but they are also highly aggressive and generaly won't work in a small or peaceful tank set-up.
Just to remind you once more, read the link in my signature about fishless cycling.
severina
Fish Crazy
You would really want to cycle with such expensive fish!? Crazy people...
IovaykInD
Fish Herder
Sorry if I offended anybody, I purely meant moneywise, losing a couple of feeder guppies is no big deal. I still have my feeder guppies that I cycled with, and I still take good care of them. Sorry if I put myself off in the wrong way. 
If you want a quick cycle, spend the extra money and go for Bio-Spira.
If you live in the US, that is. Us unfortunate Europeans can't get the stuff.
Hi dwarfgourami
I remember seeing a rather long thread about a similar product that is available in Europe. I'm sorry but I can't remember the name or I would do a search and give you a link to it.
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