Dwarf Echinodorus...

[chrismr]

Ok, so I sometimes buy my plants from a web site aquarium plants (sorry for link, but to get input it will help to show you what i ordered)

Previously I ordered e. tenellus from there, which gets referred to by most as dwarf or pygmy chain sword... but on her list of foreground plants she has listed "pygmy chain sword", with no latin name. When I search on pygmy chains, I get e. tenellus.

Could it be echinodorus latifolius?

I know I should have tried to find out all this prior to ordering, but would just like to have a good idea as to how large it is going to get...

 

[simonbrown403]

i,ve seen all three of these Echinodorus specise sold under the same name, i found it best to search for plants using the links below and find the latin names so there is no mix up.

http/www.tropica.com/frameset_productcard.asp
http/www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php
http/www.birstall.co.uk/cgi-bin/Shop.cgi...quaticsnew1.gif

echinodorus latifolius

Echinodorus angustifolius

Echinodorus tenellus

 

[oldwhitewood]

Ah ha, you have hit upon one of my major gripes there. Basically I never order echinodorus tennelus from anywhere other than birstall i.e I know it is the correct potted variety from tropica! I have ordered it in the past and without fail got liliopsis, from online retialers and even from this woman on ebay. The fact is most online retailers either do not know the difference or simply sub you species. Anyone thats tried to grow liliopsis (I can't spell it I know) will know that it grows so slowly compared to e tennelus. Check on the tropica website or dennerle, if you have any doubt as to what this plant should look like any amano book will have it in it's true form.

Pgymy chain sword from java-plants say, will typically be latifolius, this plant is often grown in it's immersed form and looks quite different once it establishes itself, the leaves are thinner and pailer and it is quite hard to maintain a lawn effect with it. I would really try and be specific about e tennelus as it's a wonderful plant which deserves more popularity and should not be constantly subbed for other lilaeopsis (again spelt wrong) species.

 

[George Farmer]

Ah ha, you have hit upon one of my major gripes there. Basically I never order echinodorus tennelus from anywhere other than birstall i.e I know it is the correct potted variety from tropica! I have ordered it in the past and without fail got liliopsis, from online retialers and even from this woman on ebay. The fact is most online retailers either do not know the difference or simply sub you species. Anyone thats tried to grow liliopsis (I can't spell it I know) will know that it grows so slowly compared to e tennelus. Check on the tropica website or dennerle, if you have any doubt as to what this plant should look like any amano book will have it in it's true form.

Pgymy chain sword from java-plants say, will typically be latifolius, this plant is often grown in it's immersed form and looks quite different once it establishes itself, the leaves are thinner and pailer and it is quite hard to maintain a lawn effect with it. I would really try and be specific about e tennelus as it's a wonderful plant which deserves more popularity and should not be constantly subbed for other lilaeopsis (again spelt wrong) species.

Very interesting. I had some "E. tennellus" from Greenline ages ago. I thought it was the real thing at the time but now I think back it grew very slowly and eventually got smothered in GSA. It may have been the genuine article but one thing I knew for sure was that it was grown emersed and took a while to adapt. I'll use Birstall next time - or better still get some cuttings from you Neil!

 

[chrismr]

their ech tenellus is indeed that. I have ordered that from them before. It is lovely and does grow well, although a bit slowly in the tank that it is in as the lighting is not the best.

I was going for something similar, but not the same for a different tank. I was hoping to get a nice grassy look from it. So, if it is latifolius, is it likely not to grow well as a lawn?

If that is the case, what are the best plants that will form a nice grassy cover, for which the light requirements are not extremely bright?

Mind you, having said that, all the high light plants currently in the tank are doing brilliantly...

 

[oldwhitewood]

George no problem mate.

I feel sure you must have got some other type of grass plant, was it hard to plant? Basically tennellus looks like a mini amazon sword plant with thin leaves and its own little root system.

This is what it should look like, see the mini plantlet on the right, that is e tennellus, dont accept anything else you get as it is SO wrongly identified. As I say I only will order this plant from birstall because it's from tropica and hence correct.

Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae often gets mistaken for e tennellus (yay spelt it right)

Easy to id by the horizontal stem and very sparse root structure. This plant is horrible to plant and in my experience I have never been able to get it to grow, it has always died without fail. I have seen people have success with it in mbuna tanks though so I suspect it needs a hard water column, my tanks are always really soft and acidic which I guess is why I am able to grow moss and tennellus so well but crap at any lilaeopsis species. It annoys me really because if it formed a thick carpet it would be a great plant.

Chrismr if you have a lot of light and your water isn't as soft as mine you may well be able to grow lilaeopsis species. However if not then tropica e tennellus is very forgiving and if you have enough light then you could try dwarf hairgrass such as eleocharis parvula, good luck trying to find this named correctly by a non tropica plant supplier I have seen it called xingu in one instance and most of the time just 'dwarf hairgrass'. Also echinodorus angustifolius is like tennellus but grows a bit taller and would look good as a midground grassy plant or to highlight stones and rocks etc depending on your aquascape. I actually think pygmy chain sword is echinodorus quadricostatus var. "magdalenesis", I'm really on the side on tropica when it comes to any plant iding you see. This plant will get you a lawn type effect but it's hard to trim and maintain although very easy to grow.

The problem is a lot of online plant retailers use contacts in asia etc, these guys seem to have different scientfic names for the plants which causes confusion with some of more unusual plants. There is so much difference of opinion I have just decided to buy the tropica catalogs and stick with those along with ADA books and Dennerle guides seem to be correct too. It's similar to trying to decide on names for mbuna or l number plecs I guess.


Sorry if I am preaching to the converted with my plant pictures btw. It's just something I find very frustrating as I just want to be able to work with the plants I read about.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

ok, now i'm curious. what have i got? it's the same type in each picture, the first is a group planted in my 10g and the last 2 are of a specimen my plecs dug up over the winter break (so it's been floating for a while).

 

[oldwhitewood]

That actually looks like dwarf sag to me, sagittaria subulata

 

[chrismr]

Thanks for all input.

Like the (what looks like) dwarf sag. that is the sort of effect I am going for... nice and grassy.

Does anybody else find there is a distinct lack of foreground plants in LFS?

Anyway, what they sold me as pygmy chain sword they have said is Echinodorus quadricostatus after I emailed them.

Hopefuly this will do what I want it to...

 

[pica_nuttalli]

having looked at the S. subulata, i have to agree on the id. top notch work!

chris, i'm not so sure about its use as a "grassy lawn"; mine's got more of a "pampas" vibe going on. i'd say that essentially all of the established plants are 4" or taller, with some leaves reaching all the way to the top of the water!