Dwarf Cichlid Help please

Kerrynic

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Hey, I did have a breeding pair last week and then I did a huge tank change around and moved the breeding box from one side of the tank to another (I really did not take in to account that they had already claimed that part of the tank as theirs) and as a consequence I believe I caused too much stress to my male. I rushed out and set up a hospital tank with all good intentions but sadly when I woke the next morning he had passed. I have today got a new male and slowly introduced him to the tank. Can anyone suggest how long it may take for my female to take to him as at present she just keeps telling him to pee off from her part of the tank. Is it a case of waiting and allowing the transition to take place or is there something more I should be doing to prevent anyone getting stressed? TIA
 

Byron

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What species of dwarf cichlid do you have?
 
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Kerrynic

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Hey @Byron I have Apistogramma (yellow with one black stripe) and I believe my new one is the same although steel blue.
 

GaryE

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Yellow with one black stripe is a female of almost any species. If you don't have the same species of male (there are dozens and dozens) he'll never be accepted.

She has her territory, and he has his. If she dislikes him, she will kill him. It's always a risk, especially if she was still in yellow breeding colours when you added him. She is wired to breed. He'd better be...
 
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Kerrynic

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Yellow with one black stripe is a female of almost any species. If you don't have the same species of male (there are dozens and dozens) he'll never be accepted.

She has her territory, and he has his. If she dislikes him, she will kill him. It's always a risk, especially if she was still in yellow breeding colours when you added him. She is wired to breed. He'd better be...
Thanks @GaryE I spoke to the aquatics store before I bought him and they had the same two in the tanks together but I said I wanted a male for her as a companion with her recently losing the other. We talked about what had happened to my previous male who was yellow with orange fins and at no point did he say any of this to me and said he will likely be fine.

How long do you think is reasonable to see if things settle before I consider contacting the aquatics to have a chat about returning the poor guy, he can't go in my other tank as I have two pufferfish so they would definitely attack him.
 
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Kerrynic

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Photos of the two fish might help someone identify which apistogrammas you have.
I can't get a picture of the blue one as he is in a cave at present but I have found a picture of him, the only difference is, when he was in the bag, his fins looked yellow but he has the beautiful markings on his face.
 

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GaryE

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Hmmm. Facial markings are very common across many species.

I've bred over 30 Apisto species, both described and undescribed. When the female is yellow, it says fry, or the need for them. If she is still guarding, he is in serious danger. If the male is an uncooperative partner or tries to eat the eggs, in a smallish tank, she will kill him. Fry defense is life to her.

Sometimes they work it out. I had one species where I started with a pair - the female killed the male and the new one killed the new one - 7 times before I gave up and started with a new pair that had no claim to the tank. They were fine. If you take anything back, take them both and get a new pair to restart.
 
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Kerrynic

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Hmmm. Facial markings are very common across many species.

I've bred over 30 Apisto species, both described and undescribed. When the female is yellow, it says fry, or the need for them. If she is still guarding, he is in serious danger. If the male is an uncooperative partner or tries to eat the eggs, in a smallish tank, she will kill him. Fry defense is life to her.

Sometimes they work it out. I had one species where I started with a pair - the female killed the male and the new one killed the new one - 7 times before I gave up and started with a new pair that had no claim to the tank. They were fine. If you take anything back, take them both and get a new pair to restart.
Thank you for the advice, what I might do is keep a close eye on how they are reacting to each other. This might sound like a silly question but when my two were mating, I actually thought they were fighting each other so how do I tell if they are fighting or mating? If I do see them fighting, I do have a net nursery I can use to initially separate them whilst I ring the store to see if they can help me out.

I will try and get an actual picture of what I have brought home with me and then that way, you or someone can help me ID.
 

Byron

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I concur with all that @GaryE has posted here. Somehow you really need to ID the species. If the store is reputable, they should know what they have...they can check their stock invoice from the supplier, the scientific name is usually there. If they got them from a local breeder, he/she should know what they are breeding.

Once you know, be aware as Gery mentioned that the two must accept each other. This applies to most if not all of the dwarf cichlids, angelfish and discus too. Buying a pair from the store tank, meaning a pair that seem to have bonded, is best.

As I was typing, you posted...this is exactly the issue, they can spawn once or twice, but not be "bonded."
 
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Kerrynic

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I concur with all that @GaryE has posted here. Somehow you really need to ID the species. If the store is reputable, they should know what they have...they can check their stock invoice from the supplier, the scientific name is usually there. If they got them from a local breeder, he/she should know what they are breeding.

Once you know, be aware as Gery mentioned that the two must accept each other. This applies to most if not all of the dwarf cichlids, angelfish and discus too. Buying a pair from the store tank, meaning a pair that seem to have bonded, is best.

As I was typing, you posted...this is exactly the issue, they can spawn once or twice, but not be "bonded."
Thanks again for helping me. He has come out of hiding and I have seen them together and he has almost avoided her and swan away but she hasn't appeared to be aggressive so far, just a bit of chase. I have got 3 pictures, one of his front, rear and side (not the best because he kept swimming around).

I am hoping one of you can ID please?
 

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Kerrynic

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I concur with all that @GaryE has posted here. Somehow you really need to ID the species. If the store is reputable, they should know what they have...they can check their stock invoice from the supplier, the scientific name is usually there. If they got them from a local breeder, he/she should know what they are breeding.

Once you know, be aware as Gery mentioned that the two must accept each other. This applies to most if not all of the dwarf cichlids, angelfish and discus too. Buying a pair from the store tank, meaning a pair that seem to have bonded, is best.

As I was typing, you posted...this is exactly the issue, they can spawn once or twice, but not be "bonded."
Sorry @Byron do you mean that even if you got a breeding pair as I did initially, they can breed and then decide they don't like each other and kill one another? Jeez if that is the case, nature is brutal!
 

Byron

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Thanks again for helping me. He has come out of hiding and I have seen them together and he has almost avoided her and swan away but she hasn't appeared to be aggressive so far, just a bit of chase. I have got 3 pictures, one of his front, rear and side (not the best because he kept swimming around).

I am hoping one of you can ID please?

I would suggest perhaps Apistogramma borellii, yellow variety--but I do not know my Apistogramma as well as Gary and he can confirm or correct.
 

Byron

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Sorry @Byron do you mean that even if you got a breeding pair as I did initially, they can breed and then decide they don't like each other and kill one another? Jeez if that is the case, nature is brutal!

Yes. The pair select each other from a group, and sometimes you can see this. The males will be challenging one another, and the female a male allows to be near him without incident is likely going to be accepted.

If you put any male with any female, they may get along, they may skirmish to various degrees, or the male may kill the female. They may spawn once or more before the male has had enough (if they don't bond). I have seen females go after males too, so it works both ways. I've had this with Mikrogeophagus altispinosus, and with Apistogramma nijsseni. The problem is that in an aquarium there is no space for the weaker fish to find refuge. In the habitat, a weaker fish just swims away, and the males retain their territory. In even a large aquarium (my examples were in a 115g 5-foot and 70g 4-foot tank) the male knows the female is there, and wants her gone. But she has no escape. It is not only visual, but chemical signals, pheromones in the water, that fish use to communicate.
 

GaryE

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He is an A borellii.

I have come to believe females hold the power in this group of fish. If they are testing each other, there will be wrestling and chasing. If she hates him, there is no fighting. I have seen females barrel into the male's throat, between the gills. He's dead before he reaches the surface.

Some males have also killed females, though never with borellii. I've found them fairly relaxed. They are one of the few Apistos that can live in groups in an average tank.
 

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