Dropsy?

[pmb_67]

Ok, so it's beg-for-help time again...

I have a couple of sick-looking fish - one a male guppy, one a black neon tetra. Main symptom is a very bloated belly, which makes me think it's dropsy given the TFF description:

<< Dropsy is a bacterial infection that can attack the internal organs. This bacteria seems to only affect fish weakened by bad water conditions, stress, etc. Excess body fluid builds up making the fish appear bloated and the scales protrude outward from the body. This disease needs to be caught early to have a good chance of successfully treating the fish. Symptoms: Bloating, protruding scales, exhaustion, isolation, loss of appetite. >>

Only thing is, I'm not seeing the exhaustion & loss of appetite - they were both pretty happy to munch away this morning, and as for exhaustion, they're probably the most active fish in the tank.

I did the usual water stats check - zero ammonium, zero nitrite, high (~100mg/l) nitrate (but then I always have high nitrate - tapwater here in London starts at 25mg/l or so), 1mg/l phosphate; it's hot in London at the mo, tank temp is up at 28C when I normally shoot for 25C.

Tank is a ~75 litre unbranded job, with a box filter on top and a Fluval 2+ inside; it's well aerated, O2 levels are normal; the tank has been running over a year with filter materials occasionally rinsed in siphoned-off tank water - haven't seen any ammonium or nitrite in many months (since the F2+ packed up at the same time as I changed the materials in the other filter) - all tap water is treated with Tetra's conditioner before addition.

Occupants: 4 neons, 4 black neons, 3 glowlights; 1 guppy; 4 platies

Should I medicate? I have eSHa 2000 and Melafix from previous problems, if they're any use...

Thanks for any help, tips, advice etc.!

Paul

 

[WILDER]

You can get them nitrates down if your tap is only 25, sounds like one of your sponges wants a slight rinse in old tank water in a bucket.
Bloating can be swim bladder so can this fish maintain its balance in the water, constipation, what do you feed the fish, dropsy bloated with stick out scales.
For now i would try some shelled peas, and check water colour it is when they go to the toilet.

 

[Ingwe]

I agree that you should get the nitrate down as much as possible. Sometimes fish eat too much and get constipated. If your fish haven't lost their ability to control their bouyancy, and are swimming normally, they are probably constipated. In that case, I suggest not feeding them for about 3 days. This won't hurt them at all, but will hopefully clear the constipation. In any case, try to get the nitrate reading down as soon as possible. Don't medicate unless you know for sure exactly what they have.

 

[pmb_67]

You can get them nitrates down if your tap is only 25, sounds like one of your sponges wants a slight rinse in old tank water in a bucket.
Bloating can be swim bladder so can this fish maintain its balance in the water, constipation, what do you feed the fish, dropsy bloated with stick out scales.
For now i would try some shelled peas, and check water colour it is when they go to the toilet.

Ta for the feedback. Nitrates I find a real problem to get down - over the year that I've had the tank, I've cut down food quantities so I give as little as possible. I figure I'm not over-generous as the platies in the tank munch the tank plants fairly often...

Getting the nitrate down is pretty hard, e.g. changing 20% of the tank volume (and I regard even that much as kind of high - I aim for 10-15% weekly) would take 5 changes using tap water of 25mg/l NO3 to bring my 100mg/l down to 50mg/l - and that's without any feeding etc. to add extra NO3. [see attached Excel sheet] If I go out and buy some RO water (assuming I can find an LFS near enough - no car, so I'd be carrying it all back myself!) then just 3 changes gets me down to the 50mg/l limit. I do have a cop-out on this though - I'm moving house in a week or two, I was planning to keep as much original tank water as possible but I'm guessing the max I'll manage to keep will be 50%, so there'll be a fair water change going on...

Back to the sick fishies, well balance is fine; well, the black neon is hanging perfectly vertically and horizontally - though he's not as mobile as yesterday. I'm guessing balance is fine with the guppy as he's zooming round like a nutter and avoiding all the non-moving objects, so I think he's ok with that.

What goes in: Tetra Min or Tetra Min Crisps; occasional live brine shrimp, bloodworms, daphnia; 2-3 days per week I chuck half an ice cube of the same in. Reckon the live/frozen could be a problem?

What comes out: looking pretty normal, maybe a darker shade of pink than normal.

Thanks again,

Paul

 

[WILDER]

Can we take a look at your stocklist of fish in the tank, plus tank size in gallons or litres, if you can't get nitrates down your filter might not be up to the job, you could do bigger water changes.
I would try the peas for now, to see if that clear them up, veg is good for flushing them through.
Make of filter and how many gallons it turns over an hour.

 

[pmb_67]

Can we take a look at your stocklist of fish in the tank, plus tank size in gallons or litres, if you can't get nitrates down your filter might not be up to the job, you could do bigger water changes.
I would try the peas for now, to see if that clear them up, veg is good for flushing them through.
Make of filter and how many gallons it turns over an hour.

Tank details:

75-litre no-brand tank (curved front corners, with a filter in the hood and the light stupidly sitting on the same circuit as said filter - black mark to the LFS that sold me that one!) with an extra Fluval 2+ inside.

4 platies
1 guppy
3 glowlight tetras
4 neon tetras
4 black neon tetras

Don't know the filters' capacity / flow rate, Fluval 2+ claims to work for 45-90 litres so added to the fairly large top box (oart of the tank itself - containing bio balls, big foam pads and rowaphos) I figure I have more than adequate filtration; that said, I also know I'm pretty much at my capacity limit. Ok, maybe a tad over; I blame the platies / my own lack of foresight in rearing a few babies [mum platy died soon after giving birth ] and not having another home for them...

What's the deal with the peas? Got some in the freezer, should I cook them first, just defrost, or what? Went with the starvation advice today - no real progress, except I swear I got some mean looks from the rest of the tank when I got home this evening and did a headcount

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[WILDER]

Sounds like the gravel needs a good hoover, peas are good for flushing the fish through, livebearers need there veg, cook peas for a few minutes, let cool down, pop out of shell, then mush between fingers, and add to the tank.
You don't use an under gravel filter do you.

 

[pmb_67]

Sounds like the gravel needs a good hoover, peas are good for flushing the fish through, livebearers need there veg, cook peas for a few minutes, let cool down, pop out of shell, then mush between fingers, and add to the tank.
You don't use an under gravel filter do you.

Nope, no undergravel filter - just the Fluval 2+ (internal) and the filter that's part of the tank; it's a snap-top box full of bio balls and whatever I put in it (at the mo a long Fluval pad, some spare F2+ pads and a mesh bag of Rowaphos) - it's fed by a pipe sticking down into the water, drips (well, pours) back into the tank at the opposite corner to the F2+.

Gravel cleaning - I make this a regular part of water changes, with the bucket not too far below the tank I find i get a slow enough water flow that I have lots of time to hoover up all the poop and gunk from the gravel. Took out a fake-rock decoration yesterday and hoovered around where it had sat - quite messy there, but the rest of the tank was pretty clean.

All still alive at the mo - but the guppy and now 2 black neons are still looking constipated. Gonna give 'em some more peas now - they munched the last lot very happily )

Paul

PS Are undergravel filters any good?

 

[WILDER]

Make sure that you move things in the tank to gravel vac as same as you say it can soon build up, good luck.
No undergravel filters are no good, i've tryed them they build up and get blocked sometimes, i wondered if you had a under gravel filter as that could of explained the high nitrates, but if you finding alot of mess under ornaments that could account for the high nitrate reading.