Dozen neon tetras, down to 9, and counting

[outofwater]

Hi, so a couple of days ago I added 12 neon tetras and 2 otos and two plants.
One tetra died that first night, I saw it avoiding the shoal, found it at the bottom the next morning, the assassin snail feasting on it. Removed it.

Later found another one which hadn't exhibited any abnormal behavior.

This morning I noticed one with the dorsal fin almost gone, and the skin around it discolored. It died a couple hours ago.

Found one more with half the caudal/tail gone. Took it into a quarantine tank and added melafix. Not sure if wishful thinking or reality, but an hour later that fish seems to be swimming better (looked downward-crooked when I quarantined it, pics how seem to show him "normal"). I'm thinking it's neon tetra disease from what I read and what I've seen, however all I've read so far indicates that disease is not as fast moving as what I'm seeing (3 dead fish, one with no apparent signs of anything wrong, in less than 24 hours; and one that hopefully will recover).

Other than these new fish, the only big change was a recent substrate change (from gravel to sand) but all the fish were out in a bucket for the substrate change
(previous occupants were only my 5 corys) AND the otos and tetras had been acclimated for 30 minutes before I put them all together in said bucket, and back to the tank.

Water is at 78 F, 0.25 ammonia (was zero before the substrate change), 0 nitrites, 5M nitrates.

If this was neon tetra disease, can anyone confirm if it's transmitted to the others? So far from reading I've concluded that it seems to affect only the tetra group/family.

If not.. what do you think is happening? Are these tetras nipping each other? But not even that explains the deaths, right?

Any thoughts would be highly appreciated

 

[outofwater]

Noticed another one with a nipped tail fin, although not nearly as bad as the one currently quarantined, and one more that seems to be hiding away from the rest of the shoal, although the only other physical difference I see so far is the slightly bent-down tail on both.

Thoughts?

 

[Colin_T]

It looks like a bacterial infection (maybe Columnaris). Neon Disease usually attacks the blue line first but can also get into the red line.
It probably came in with the fish (neons) from the shop.

You need something to treat bacterial infections and you need to start treating asap. Bacterial infections can kill fish within 24-48 hours of showing any signs.

The medication might wipe out your filter bacteria so monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels for a few weeks.

Wipe the glass down, clean the filter, clean the gravel, and do a huge (90-100%) water change before re-treating the tank. Ideally you want to treat fish in a bare glass tank with nothing else in it, but you also need to treat the main tank due to the bacteria being in there.

Keep the bodies in a plastic bag in the freezer. Contact the shop you bought them from and send them pictures of the dead and sick fish. Ask if they have had any problems with their neons. Maybe go into the shop and see if any of their neons are showing symptoms (faded red or blue line).

 

[itiwhetu]

What is the pH of your tank please?

 

[outofwater]

What is the pH of your tank please?

Thanks @itiwhetu forgot to add that on water parameters. 7.6, always has been like this since day one, and even after recent big water change due to substrate change.

So far, after one last look for the night; seems the other fish that I thought was staying away from the shoal was just a one-off, can't really see any abnormal behavior or physical symptoms at the moment.

@Colin_T I added the second one exhibiting fin damage on the quarantine tank, and will do 50% water changes and substrate cleaning daily starting tomorrow. Would you still suggest starting medication for the entire tank right away, or wait another day or two? I'll definitely get in touch with the store tomorrow as well.

Thank you all

 

[itiwhetu]

Thanks @itiwhetu forgot to add that on water parameters. 7.6, always has been like this since day one, and even after recent big water change due to substrate change.

So far, after one last look for the night; seems the other fish that I thought was staying away from the shoal was just a one-off, can't really see any abnormal behavior or physical symptoms at the moment.

@Colin_T I added the second one exhibiting fin damage on the quarantine tank, and will do 50% water changes and substrate cleaning daily starting tomorrow. Would you still suggest starting medication for the entire tank right away, or wait another day or two? I'll definitely get in touch with the store tomorrow as well.

Thank you all

These guys do best in acid tanks, I would never keep Neon's in water with a pH of 7.6. Others may have different opinions.

 

[outofwater]

These guys do best in acid tanks, I would never keep Neon's in water with a pH of 7.6. Others may have different opinions.

Noted, I'll work on this, it seems the other fish in my tank could take a slight change towards the acidic side without issues, and if that helps the tetras thrive it'll be worth it. Thank you.

 

[itiwhetu]

Noted, I'll work on this, it seems the other fish in my tank could take a slight change towards the acidic side without issues, and if that helps the tetras thrive it'll be worth it. Thank you.

Think, lots of plant, drift wood, almond leaves, and small water changes(25%)

 

[Colin_T]

Start medication on both tanks asap, today if possible. Bacterial infections can spread fast and you could have more sick fish tomorrow even if they look ok now.

Don't adjust the pH yet. Wait until the fish have recovered and then add things like driftwood to lower the pH.

You want as little stuff in the tank as possible while treating fish.

 

[outofwater]

Start medication on both tanks asap, today if possible. Bacterial infections can spread fast and you could have more sick fish tomorrow even if they look ok now.

Don't adjust the pH yet. Wait until the fish have recovered and then add things like driftwood to lower the pH.

You want as little stuff in the tank as possible while treating fish.

The two quarantined fish seemed ok earlier, however the one with half the tail fin gone now has the entire thing gone. Further segregated that one from the second one. Second one seems stable, no visible further loss of fin tissue, and both actually ate. Changed the quarantined tank water, and put melafix on both the QT and the main tank last night. I need to get another bottle today, had a small remnant on a small bottle, and used it all (per recommended dose).

Rest of tetras in main tank seem ok, no sig of any fin issues, all shoaling together. All other fish seem ok too.

Will still visit the store later today after work to pick up melafix, check on the tetras there and ask about any issues.

Could it be they were too shocked at the new environment? It's been freezing cold here the last few days, with some days really dipping into the single digits. Last week one of the petcos I went to just to browse told me that they had lost an entire shipment of fish and plants because because had been sitting in the truck too long.

I won't make any changes to the aquarium for now (to turn down the pH a bit) nor add any new fish, plants or decorations until I sort this out.

On the issue of adding new fish... acclimating them for 30 to 60 minutes is what I've been doing, granted I got all the fish from the same shop/tank (the corys). Even these tetras and otos came from the same tank at the shop where I go. Should I quarantine them moving forward? And for how long, before I put them in the regular tank?

I was reading and some people recommended a few days and to do a melafix round while in there, as a prophylactic.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Edit: forgot to add, tested water. 0 ammonia and nitrites, 5 ppm nitrate. Water at 77 F.

 

[Naughts]

Melafix isn't strong enough to treat a bacterial infection/ Columnaris. It's active ingredient is just tea tree oil.

 

[outofwater]

Melafix isn't strong enough to treat a bacterial infection/ Columnaris. It's active ingredient is just tea tree oil.

Once I get back home from work today I'll see where things stand. From what I've read columnaris is always there, it's just when it outbreaks or overruns the tank that issues arise, or a bad strain arrives on new fish. Some of the medications that have been suggested or I've read about will destroy the good bacteria, sending my tank back to new tank status. I'll do it if needed, but hoping that's a last resort desperate move. And that constant cleaning, large water changes and these "natural" remedies will prevent further death and bring the stupid bug to heel.

 

[Colin_T]

The neons had the bacterial infection at the shop. If the shop only just got them, then their supplier sent sick diseased fish to the shop.

I recommend all new fish be quarantined for at least 2 (preferably 4) weeks before they are added to an established aquarium that already contains fish. This gives the fish time to settle in and get use to the new water chemistry (assuming there's a difference to the shops), and it allows time for virtually all (except TB) fish diseases to show up if they are going to.

If you have fish in a quarantine tank, you only add medications if they actually get sick. The only exception to this is deworming the fish while they are in quarantine. Deworming medications are quite safe and can be used prophylactically because most fish do actually carry intestinal works and gill flukes. Some deworming medications treat gill flukes too.

 

[outofwater]

The neons had the bacterial infection at the shop. If the shop only just got them, then their supplier sent sick diseased fish to the shop.

I recommend all new fish be quarantined for at least 2 (preferably 4) weeks before they are added to an established aquarium that already contains fish. This gives the fish time to settle in and get use to the new water chemistry (assuming there's a difference to the shops), and it allows time for virtually all (except TB) fish diseases to show up if they are going to.

If you have fish in a quarantine tank, you only add medications if they actually get sick. The only exception to this is deworming the fish while they are in quarantine. Deworming medications are quite safe and can be used prophylactically because most fish do actually carry intestinal works and gill flukes. Some deworming medications treat gill flukes too.

Thanks. What I have now is a measly 1 gal tank (got it for free from someone who lost their betta) and after disinfecting it and then rinsing it with aquarium water, I can actually have inside my larger tank, floating; so the temp stays good. Not the ideal situation, but that's what i have ATM, and it fits the hill for the 2 sick neons. If more fish get sick, I'll have to take other measures. About to go home, check on the fish, then off to the store to do what I mentioned earlier. Then back home, to clean the tank, a major water change, and medicate both tanks. Might pick up a small 10g "tank in a box" setup to have it as a plant/quarantine tank ready for future arrivals, I still got a few fish on my shopping list, but that will be on hold until this situation is under control.

 

[outofwater]

So, came home, the neon in worse shape already died. the other is hanging in there. A bit more fin damage. All other neons in main tank ok, no physical signs of any disease or discomfort, all swimming or shoaling, all other fish are fine. Went to store, same number of tetras in tank (I took a dozen, about half was left) observed one doing a "circle around the drain" swim at bottom of tank, pale all around yet not fully discolored and no fin issues. Asked employee to come over, showed him that fish and explained my situation. Stated had not received any other customer reports/complaints, will pass info to manager. I'll call tomorrow morning to speak to said manager.

Observed another tank where what I think was a young pleco (about 2 inches) was vertical and pretty dead. At surface of that tank I saw a platty (I believe) munching on some piece of either that pleco, or some other dead fish I couldn't see.

All tanks tooled clean and all other fish seemed ok. Saw many angel fish and several dwarf gouramis, all young ones.

Coincidentally, on my recent visit to petco I saw A LOT of dead fish on several tanks, this was supposedly from their recent shipment (Thursdays). This other place (pet supply plus) told me they get theirs on Wednesdays. I assume they have the same bulk suppliers, and unfortunately it seems that the "supply chain" issues and the extreme cold around here is taking its toll on these poor animals, and they're arriving in very bad shape and some are just going to customers home to die.

I still bought the melafix, came home, changed about 40% of water and applied it. I believe (and hope that I'm right) that this was just too much stress on the already weakened neons, because now that I'm thinking, on top of everything else, the guy who caught them for me from the tank was too impatient and bothered the hell out of them to catch them chasing them aggressively with the net. When I got my corys that guy was gentle and patient and knew what he was doing, the fish almost didn't stress at all.

Anyway, that's tonight's update. Hope things continue this way. Losing a few of these little guys sucks, and it would suck even more if it extends to the rest of my fish.