down!, plse down!!!

[dutoits]

This is the detailed malawi tank history in the hope that someone can help

I have a new 290 liter tank. 1200mm long, 600mm high, 450mm wide. An undergravel filter & a Dophin 1600l/h Bio-filter with coral chunks in two of the five trays, two Atlas 1200l/h Powerheads, a Regent RH 300w heater. Underneath the hood the water surface is covered with sliding glass panels. Fitted in the hood is 3 different coloured aquarium bulbs. The lights are switched on approx 4 hours from late afternoon when I get home & switched off one by one to simulate sundown.

The tank was filled with tapwater of excellent drinkable quality, added to that was the prescribed dosage of Nutrafin Water Conditioner Aqua Plus and also Nutrafin Cycle for new tanks. A catfish was sent in as a scout. The filters and heater was running for a week before I started putting malawies in. This was done in 3 batches over about 6 days.

I have 25 African cilchids - Malawies (varying sizes +- 1" to 4") and 2 s.catfish (1" &1.5"). I was adviced by various people to overstock the tank to overcome the aggressive nature of these fish.

The floor is a gravel & coral bed. Plenty of rock caves. Enough free open swimming space. One small mature log from an older fishtank for the benefit of the catfish. No plants at all.

They eat a variety of Daiichi frozen food and some Aquafin cilchid pellets, sinking Tetra pellets for the catfish.

I have a couple of Tetra test kits. I can't get the ammonia en nitrite on the ideal levels. The nitrite 1.0 and ammonia 3.0 - 5.0, both stay in the beginning of the stress/danger zones. The Ph is about 8 and the water is hard, about 300, (both ideal for malawies). Alkalinity is also in the ideal range, 120 - 180. Nitrate is very low, 0 - 20, safest side of the safe zone! Temperature is a constant 28.5C

The first batch of fish was in obvious high stress (high nitrite readings and obvious stress signs) so I did a 50% water change and added more Nutrafin Cycle according to instructions. With the second batch of fish the dealer sold me a bottle Marc Weiss Rift Lake Vital which I added as prescribed by manufacturer. After that I did 2 more 20 - 30 % water changes to try get the water quality right. With 2nd water change I also added some fizzy Ammonia clear tablets from Jungle labs, (no change in reading).
On day 9 since adding fish I bought some Kent granular Ammonia sponge, ( the coral chunks was removed from the 2 bio-filter trays, the sponge was put inside the one and the other filled with more of those filter tubes) - all to no avail. I add a little salt per water change, only about 30ml coarse food grade seasalt. (I must mention the area where we live in the Western Cape of South Africa has genuinely exceptionally high quality tap water)

20 April 2005 It is now 12 days since I've put the first batch of fish in and when I got home I found one of the smallest fish dead (I do not rule the possibility out that it might have been attacked). The rest of the fish still doesn't show signs of stress, but I'm worried that the continued wrong water quality will cause stress. Ammonia reading still 5.0, highest on chart & nitrite still 1.0, beginning of stress zone, rest of readings ideal for malawies as always. I did a 50% water change and added the required amount Insta Pure Magic De-Chloronator.

For the past couple of days I have reduced the food with about 50% to try combat the high ammonia & nitrite readings.

Question 1: How much water can I change daily?
Question 2: How long should give them too little food?

 

[Ferris]

Forgive me if i've missed something but it sounds like your tank is still cycling whilst fully stocked with fish. .

If the tank had never fully cycled, the process will be dragged out by the ammonia levels being produced by the fish. Your actual stocking level seems OK for Mbuna, thats around a 55 gal tank but if the tank hasn't properly cycled, its way too many.

Daily water changes are a must to keep reducing the ammonia levels in particular, this will help a lot and if you can't temporarily re-home any fish, they will need to ride it out.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[simonbrown403]

i agree with ferris, to many fish to soon, your tank has'nt cylced.

i,ve found that an under gravel filtration to be insuficent to cope with the high load that malawi's produce, in ower tank we have an internal and exsternal filter.

if you know anybody with a simalar tank you could pinch a bit of there filter medium or gravel to give your tank a head start.

in the mean time keep up the water changes

 

[dutoits]

Don't count the Bio filter out,
it's quite hefty for a 290litre tank!

How much water can I change daily?
Should I keep adding salt?
What about dechlorinator?
Should I keep adding a cycle product with every change?
Can I start giving more food?

 

[Ferris]

How much water can I change daily?
Should I keep adding salt?
What about dechlorinator?
Should I keep adding a cycle product with every change?
Can I start giving more food?

25-30% should be fine.
I would forget the salt, it won't help.
Use the dechlorinator only when changing the water and in the right amount based on how much water you are changing.
You don't need to use the cycle, it just starts the process, which it has done.
Feed the minimum you can without starving the fish, this will help to keep the ammonia levels down.

Hope this makes sense!

 

[freddyk]

You've probably already guessed the worth of nutrifin cycle, don't waste your time or money on this useless product anymore!

Instead, go to the lfs and get as much filter media or gravel from an established tank as you can, and then place this in your own filter. Doing this will seed your tank with actual bacteria, rather then bottled garbage.

Water changes of 25-50% are fine, do whatever you need to do to get those numbers down. The longer these fish are exposed to these conditions, the worse off they are, even if they survive.

Stop adding stuff. Keep it simple until you have a stable tank. Dechlorinator is a must, but everything else isn't. These are not brackish fish, they are fresh water fish, and they don't need salt.

You can stop feeding the fish altogether for a little while - these are fish that go a month without eating while they hold, they can handle it.

I'd be inclined to return most of the fish and get them when the tank is ready, but if that's not an option then just keep doing water changes, and get your hands on that real bacteria!

 

[Eupterus]

I would agree totally with the previous post except for the chlorine. De chlorinator is a rip off. As a degree level chemistry teacher, chlorine ( at tap water concentration) disipates completely froma gallon of water in about 15 minutes even without aggetation. Any water movement will speed up this process. From a water chemistry point of view, the tank has certainly been set up in far too much of a hurry, stocking that fast is the equivelent of moving your entire extended family into a one bed flat and not flushing the toilet for a month. The filters need fish to start them off and I do agree that cycle is useless. Stock slowly and surely, the water changes will certainly do the job. You habvent mentioned whether you have another tank. If you do swill a spong or some gravel from the filter of the existing tank into the new one. This will transfer a small culture of bactieria to help speed up the process.

I hope this helps

 

[freddyk]

As a degree level chemistry teacher, chlorine ( at tap water concentration) disipates completely froma gallon of water in about 15 minutes even without aggetation

Chloromine concerns me much more then chlorine though. To be honest with you, I don't use the stuff because I know my tap water, but I always feel safest recommending it.

 

[dutoits]

I made the Petshop give me 3kg of live gravel and this I seeded the canister filter with and the rest I added to my tank gravel.

Pronto the ammonia levels have now dropped to save.

The nitrate is in the safe zone.

The nitrite is now my consern as this is in the danger zone. I added plants to help with this and have increased the amount of water I changed to 50% and added salt as prescribed by Jungle.

I recon my problems are nearly over and this excersize have taught me why I need to cycle a tank properly before I introduce my finned friends to it.

I am planing my next 1000 l tank which I want to stock with Oscars and angels
and will wait for it to cycle properly before I add fish

 

[pica_nuttalli]

another thing to note is that all those Ammo-Lock, Ammo-Clear, Etc.-Etc. simply convert the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate to "fish friendly" forms. they don't actually remove anything, which can give false positives when testing your water.

just something to think about.