Doing Some Research...can A Betta Breeder Help?

[KasumiBetta]

I'd like to try my hand at breeding some of my bettas, and I've been researching off and on for a while now. I've read about conditioning, breeding, raising the fry, and a bit about betta conformation and genetics.
 
What I'm wondering is this:
 
You end up with between 1-500 fry. I understand that they're social up to a point and then become aggressive toward each other as they mature. When you have 500 of them that need to be seperate from each other, do you keep them all in their own 10 gallon filtered heated tanks? How would you set up a facility for that?
 
I've been saving up money to do it right, and have a few hundred, but I'm not quite sure what is appropriate for housing fry upon maturity and before they go on to their forever homes.

 

[TallTree01]

What I would do is let them kill eachother til you have about 10-15 left. Then put them in a big seperated tank. This means you get the strongest stock. 

Survival of the fittest. The strong ones will eat the weak ones.

 

[Wildbetta]

What I would do is let them kill eachother til you have about 10-15 left. Then put them in a big seperated tank. This means you get the strongest stock. 

Survival of the fittest. The strong ones will eat the weak ones.

 
This is not what the OP asked for and unnecessarily cruel.  When breeding bettas you have to be prepared to separate the fry/juvies once they start getting aggressive. 
 
Kasumi --  When the fry reach somewhere between 2-3 months old, they will need to start needing to be separated.  Breeders normally use 1 gallon containers of some kind - mason jars or deli cups - to separate each of the fry into.  Setting them into a tub or large tank of water heated with a heater will keep them heated and the jars/cups get 100% water changes every other day or so.  For sure females (that are not overly aggressive) can be kept in a large tank together as a sorority until homes are found.  That is how breeders normally do it.  I have seen a couple of breeders keep 10 or 20 gallon long tanks divided into several sections for males as well as the jar/cup option.

 

[KasumiBetta]

What I would do is let them kill eachother til you have about 10-15 left. Then put them in a big seperated tank. This means you get the strongest stock. 

Survival of the fittest. The strong ones will eat the weak ones.

 
I'm genuinely uncertain how to take this comment.
 
 

 

What I would do is let them kill eachother til you have about 10-15 left. Then put them in a big seperated tank. This means you get the strongest stock. 

Survival of the fittest. The strong ones will eat the weak ones.

 
This is not what the OP asked for and unnecessarily cruel.  When breeding bettas you have to be prepared to separate the fry/juvies once they start getting aggressive. 
 
Kasumi --  When the fry reach somewhere between 2-3 months old, they will need to start needing to be separated.  Breeders normally use 1 gallon containers of some kind - mason jars or deli cups - to separate each of the fry into.  Setting them into a tub or large tank of water heated with a heater will keep them heated and the jars/cups get 100% water changes every other day or so.  For sure females (that are not overly aggressive) can be kept in a large tank together as a sorority until homes are found.  That is how breeders normally do it.  I have seen a couple of breeders keep 10 or 20 gallon long tanks divided into several sections for males as well as the jar/cup option.
 

 
That's brilliant! I never thought of putting jars inside a tank to keep them warm. I'll definitely add it to my notes. Thank you so much for a detailed and thoughtful answer.

 

[attibones]

To be fair, what TallTree suggested is very much the way nature works. Having said that, I'm not entirely sure if I would have the stomach for it. Then again, I don't have the patience (or money!) for betta breeding.

I would like to ask, though, how you plan to rehome them. Does your LFS take in fry? Do you have a bunch of friends who would take them? I've always been curious about how people who aren't fish breeders for fun and profit get rid of their fry. It seems like a massive undertaking.

 

[KasumiBetta]

Well, I did some preliminary research and called all the fish stores in my local area. 4 of them are eager to take them once they are mature, because they prefer local fish when ever possible. My husband also agreed to let me host a fish sale at our house, and I plan to make betta posters, betta care booklets (fully illustrated. I love doing betta art ) and little displays with properly set up bettas. My husband is a fish nut also and has been helping me come up with ideas.
 
I'm not quite ready yet. My husband got me a vinegar eel culture and a baby brine shrimp hatchery, so I'm guessing he'll want to start soon. I'd just like to have a little more padding in the account so I can get a really nice set-up. I've been taking extensive notes on breeding and care, but there's a few areas I'd still like to look into more before I pick out a breeding set up and get started.
 
 
 
As far as TallTree's suggestion: I believe he meant well by his post and honestly meant to help.  He's also right. It would after all, leave only the strongest behind.
 
The downside to such a scheme (aside from senseless mayhem) is that the survivors would no doubt be wounded and in dire need of long term nursing, but also the fins would be tattered and torn. One of my bettas blew out his tail fin simply from flaring too much can you imagine what a fight would do?

 

[attibones]

At that age, though, there wouldn't be as much in the way of fins, I think. Regardless, it sounds like you do have a good plan for rehoming and everything. You should check your local gumtree/Craigslist to see if anyone has any jars and such they are giving away. You could probably get plenty of your supplies second hand.

 

[Wildbetta]

When they are very young...it would be different and would be "survival of the fittest" but once you can start telling gender in bettas then it becomes your responsibility as a breeder to remove the ones that are aggressive.  At that size and age they are getting their finnage in and is past the time of really culling unless one needed to because of a deformity or other issue.  With betta fighting still an issue with certain areas it is not advisable to suggest letting the bettas fight it out.  At the age of jarring it could really be considered cruelty.  I know of a breeder that sells on Aquabid that leaves their spawns together until they sell them and the buyers always get fish with eyes missing, scales damaged, and fins torn badly.  
 
 
A couple of other live foods I suggest are microworms/walter worms/banana worms (all 3 are around the same size and require the same culturing methods) and grindal worms for when the fry get around a month or so old.  Getting some "second hand" is a real good way to get a lot of the stuff you need without spending a whole bunch of money.  Most spawns don't get to be upwards of 500 fry but I know of a lot that easily get to 200.  There are ways to limit spawn size to a degree.  Removing the female a little early and culling early on are two ways of doing this.

 

[KasumiBetta]

Wow, thank you for the responses!
 
Regarding microworms: I've read mixed reviews on these. Some people insist that microworms are the best thing ever to feed betta fry, others say they can cause missing ventrals. Have you ever had a problem with missing ventrals when feeding them?
 
I've not read much into grindal worms. I'll definitely take a look.
 
Thank you so much for this wonderful advice. I'll definitely remove the female early if I can. I really don't want my first spawn to be too big if there is a way to avoid it.
 
I just found some jars on craigslist! This is so exciting!

 

[Wildbetta]

As far as microworms and betta splenden fry...they are great for the first week or so as a main food while the fry are still really small.  Some fry are too small for BBS so microworms work best at that point.  BBS is best for the next couple of weeks as a staple but using microworms/walter worms/banana worms as other feedings throughout the day is fine.  Just like with older bettas, it is best to have a mixed diet.  
 
With the jars...just make sure you get the wide mouth.    

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I couldn't even imagine what I'd do with 200 fry of ANY specie, let alone bettas who need separate storage!  A very informative thread on bettas, but it's showing me that the way for me to proceed should I take the plunge is a single male betta - or at most all males in separate containment.   Like livebearers, single genders only for me!

 

[KasumiBetta]

Wildbetta - I looked at the culturing methods for the grindal worms and um...I'm scared! Are they really as difficult as they sound?
 
Eagles - Save yourself! By the time a betta wraps you around a long flowing fin, it's too late. Your bank account will drain and you won't have a single flat surface left in the house.

 

[Wildbetta]

Naw they arn't that hard especially if you get a good starter to start with.  All you need is some potting soil (baked in the micro for 2-3 minutes) then add the starter to the middle of your dirt(after it has cooled down of course) then spray it with water till moist.  Then you feed it pieces of cat food.  Extremely easy for grindal worms.

 

[KasumiBetta]

Really? The instrutions I read was talking about peat moss, aquarium charcoal, a certain measure boiled to a certain consistency...it sounded super hard. I'll put some on order tomorrow. Payday. Yay!

 

[Wildbetta]

Not sure where you are located and that may be where the difficult culturing method you describe came from but I will link you a site that I order some of my live food from.  You might not be in an area to buy from her but she has all kinds of care sheets and instructions on live foods that it still should be useful for you.  
 
www.bugpantry.com