Does Too Much Nitrate Hinder Cycling?

[navy]

I just visited my LPS and I told them my situation. Tank is cycling etc, ammonia going down, nitrites rising, haven't tested nitrate. I don't fully get what he was saying as i can't remember it lol, he said if there is TOO much nitrate it can stop the bacteria from converting the nitrite or ammonia into nitrate. He said if it was over 40 ppm to do a 25% water change. Mine is at 20 ppm. I'm not sure about this can anyone decyrpt this for me??

Thanks in advance!

 

[Gatorbait]

I think he was probably saying too much ammonia and it will inhibit the growth of Nitrobacter so the nitrite won't be converted to nitrate, which is true.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. If you wish, you can do a pwc.

After the cycle is done, then you'd want to keep your nitrates below 40ppm.

 

[crazie.eddie]

The amount of Nitrobacter will depend of surface area the bacteria can colonize. Basically, if you a 10 gallon tank fully stocked and using a filter that supports a 100 gallon tank, the media in the filter is enough to support a 100 tank, but the bacteria would only colonize enough of the filter to support a fully stocked 10 gallon tank.

 

[Gatorbait]

The amount of Nitrobacter will depend of surface area the bacteria can colonize. Basically, if you a 10 gallon tank fully stocked and using a filter that supports a 100 gallon tank, the media in the filter is enough to support a 100 tank, but the bacteria would only colonize enough of the filter to support a fully stocked 10 gallon tank.

Unless there is too much ammonia. Ammonia does inhibit Nitrobactor growth no matter how much more surface area there is to be colonized.

But this doesn't have anything to do with the thread starters question.

 

[navy]

Bascially what I am asking is, if there is too much nitrate (mine is at 80ppm) should I do a water change during cycling to keep it cycling? If anyone can help that would be great as I do not want to slow down the cycle by doing another water change if its not necessary. thanks.

 

[Underwurlde]

If you are adding ammonia by hand, and it, over a period of time drops to 0ppm, Nitrite always at 0ppm (ish) and thereafter nitrate rises, then your filters are cycled and ready for fish.

80ppm Nitrate levels will not hinder the filters and will therefore not hinder the cycling process, but will be too high for adding fish, so in the future before adding fish water change to bring the levels of nitrate down.

Once cycled add fish gradually, as the fiters adjust (i.e. the amount of colonizing bacteria in the filter) to the level of stocking gradually.

Andy

 

[navy]

Thanks Underwurlde I don't like taking direct advice from the LFS so I now always check on forums first! Yes I will definately do a water change once its cycled to lower the nitrate

Just another quick question, how high is too high for the filters? I mean I would never let my tank get so much nitrate it is off the charts, but just to know, how much in ppm will your filter say "I cannot take it anymore!"

 

[andywg]

40ppm can be pretty hard to keep a tank to, especially when a number of water supplies in the UK have nitrates of 40ppm straight out of the tap. I have never heard of high nitrates stopping the filter working.

The only research I have found on the subject is Nitrate toxicity to five species of marine fish by Pierce, RH; Weeks, JM; and Prappas, JM reported in Journal of the World Aquaculture Society. Vol. 24, no. 1, pp. 105-107. 1993 in which it is pointed out that earlier tests have shown that prolonged exposure to nitrates over 100 ppm may be detrimental to fish. This is fairly important as nitrates are considered far more damaging to marine fishes due to the operation of their osmoregulatory system.

Later reading indicates that fry are more susceptible to contaminants such as chlorine and thus one could reasonably hypothesise that they are more sensitive to nitrate. The above research found that once nitrates are above 100ppm for a fair length of time then there begins to be a possibility of long term detrimental effects to the fish.

Essentially, so long as the tank is less than 100ppm and you aren't planning anything considered very sensitive (such as threadfins or rays) then the tank shouldn''t have too much problem at all.

 

[navy]

Thanks andywg! I am anxious to go home and test my tank to see if it has finally finished cycling (yes I'm dreaming lol), *sigh* have to wait until 5:30pm............

 

[Squid]

Just my 2 penneth.. Whilst doing my fishless cycle, my cycle halted once or twice. I remember asking for ideas as to why the cycle halted. The response was that really high nitrates were causing the KH to be too low, and the PH crashed, which will affect the cycle.. Now i don't know the truth in all that, but im pretty sure i have heard elsewhere that a low low PH can inhibit the tank cycling. My bogwood may have affected the PH after a couple of weeks too, so im not sure what it was.

I guess what i am really trying to say is, keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite stats. If the tank appears to uncycled slightly, so ammonia starts to reappear or anything else funny, then a large water change may help to put things back on track. I performed a 75% water change when my cycle halted, and this seemed to kick it back into action.

Just test it often ... as andy said, levels of 20-80 wont be an issue to the tank cycling. My nitrates were just off the chart and un-measureable..

Keep being patient chap.... it takes time

Squid

 

[confusion]

If you have 80ppm of nitrates, I would say that your tank isn't cycling, it's cycled, unless your tap water has 80ppm of nitrates.

I do not believe nitrates have any bearing on KH. KH is a measure of carbonates on the water. Nitrates, are well, nitrates.

I also experienced an issue where my tank wouldn't finish cycling until I lowered my ammonia and nitrite levels. Once I did, the cycle was complete. I suspect really high ammonia or nitrites will stunt the growth of the bacteria.

 

[Squid]

If you have 80ppm of nitrates, I would say that your tank isn't cycling, it's cycled, unless your tap water has 80ppm of nitrates.

I do not believe nitrates have any bearing on KH. KH is a measure of carbonates on the water. Nitrates, are well, nitrates.

I also experienced an issue where my tank wouldn't finish cycling until I lowered my ammonia and nitrite levels. Once I did, the cycle was complete. I suspect really high ammonia or nitrites will stunt the growth of the bacteria.

80ppm of nitrates does not mean the cycle is finished.. if following the add and wait method, reducing a few ppm of ammonia within 12-24 hours to 0 with 0 nitrites means the tank has cycled. If the tank is slow to cycle, then nitrates may rise and rise.

Also, by using the add and wait method correctly, you shouldn't get too much ammonia as you are controlling how much you put in....!

Squid

 

[navy]

Here are my tank readings for today:

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 5.0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm
PH 7.6

My Ammonia has gradually gone down and as you can see my Nitrate has gone down...is this right isn't it supposed to go up? Though I think i read it wrong yesterday when I said it was at 80ppm as I looked at it under yellow light and not white light (as my bf pointed out), so it might have been 20ppm yesterday too

The Nitrite has been stagnant at 5.0 for about 4 days now, so that is a concern....

Anyways from that reading should I do a water change? I did a water change in my other tank that is cycling (only 25L) and its nitrites have gone down from 5.0 to .25 over night!

75% water change seems very drastic squid! I might just do a 25% one lol.

 

[Squid]

Here are my tank readings for today:

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 5.0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm
PH 7.6

My Ammonia has gradually gone down and as you can see my Nitrate has gone down...is this right isn't it supposed to go up? Though I think i read it wrong yesterday when I said it was at 80ppm as I looked at it under yellow light and not white light (as my bf pointed out), so it might have been 20ppm yesterday too

The Nitrite has been stagnant at 5.0 for about 4 days now, so that is a concern....

Anyways from that reading should I do a water change? I did a water change in my other tank that is cycling (only 25L) and its nitrites have gone down from 5.0 to .25 over night!

75% water change seems very drastic squid! I might just do a 25% one lol.

75% was right for me.. after all, there were no fish in there and massive amounts of nitrates.. and one not working cycle hehehe.

With your stats the way they are, you don't need to do anything at the moment. Most people find that it takes longer for the nitrites to go down than the ammonia. Don't be suprised if it takes more than double the ammount of time it took for the ammonia to go down..

Cheers
Squid

 

[Underwurlde]

...because the Nitrite busting bacteria take longer to 'reproduce' / 'double' / whatever you call it, than the Ammonia busting bacteria. Twice as long I think.


Andy