Does My Nitrite/amonia Need To Spike In Order For My Tank To Cycle?

[Brette]

I ruined my tank by overcleaning and doing overly large water changes which made it to cycle and recycle. Then my fish became sick and many died, the unstable water didn't help.

This time things will be different. I'm trying to be very conservative and only clean or change water when I really need to. This 25 gallon tank has been set up for 5 days with 3 fish and established tank filter media. I still don't have nitrites. No amonia. I have not done any water changes. How will I ever know if my tank is cycled if this keeps up? And when can I add the remaining 3 fish that also survived?

I'm paranoid now about screwing everything up again!

Thanks everyone.

 

[rdd1952]

If the media is from the old, cycled tank, then you shouldn't see any ammonia or nitrite provided the media stayed wet and the bacteria weren't without food for too long. However, if you don't have the fish in the tank and haven't added any ammonia to it to feed the bacteria, then your filter may not be cycled any more. How long has it been since the filter was in a tank with fish or an ammonia source?

 

[Brette]

The filter and everything else was cleaned thoroughly last week with vinegar and water as I had a nasty columnaris outbreak which was exascerbated by unstable water conditions because of my compulsive cleaning. I took the tank apart.

So I've started from scratch again essentially but with the added bonus of this 2 x 2 inch piece of filter floss from my sisters 3 year old tank. I have 3 fish in ther enow and I'm considering adding the other 3 from the sick tank as they are well now in order to get this cycling going. I have not had any significant readings of anything in 5 days.

I'm going away in mid octber for 5 days and I need to make sure this process is over before I leave!

 

[rdd1952]

Since you cleaned everything, as you mentioned, you are starting from scratch. The media from your sister's tank would definitely help and may well handle the waste of 3 fish. When you have gone a week with ammonia and nitrite both at 0, then you should be safe to add the other 3 fish.

 

[Brette]

Thanks for your help!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

rdd is right, i'm a little confused by the compulsive cleaning, can you please explain to us what you did that you think caused the poor water conditions.

large water changes in themselves or rigorous cleaning of the gravel and glass shouldn't create any problems like this.

Just want to make sure you fully understand where the issues have arisen before and what is and isn't OK so you don't go down the same road again or end up over compensating and getting a dirty tank cos you're too scared to clean it!!

 

[Brette]

rdd is right, i'm a little confused by the compulsive cleaning, can you please explain to us what you did that you think caused the poor water conditions.

I had a 2 month tank that i was introducing fish and plants to slowly. A total of 16 fish in a 25 gallon. Many of them cardinals. I did 25% water changes twice a week on average and vacumed the gravel. I would end up with cloudy water sometimes, I think because I never let the tank get established before going on a cleaning binge. I was a tad overzealous and add to that I didn't have a water testing kit.

The fish looked fine though until one day the water was extremely cloudy and my diamond tetras had a bacterial infection. I treated with a broad spectrum antiobiotic and after a week things look better. So I did a 50% water change and replaced the filter floss. I had also added too much salt probably. BOOM. Cloudy water again, and many fish perished overnight, many with large tufts of columnaris attached to them which they had previously been rid of thanks to the antibiotic.

OOPS.

I've since bought a testing kit and cleaned the entire tank and started over. Honestly, if the readings stay the way they are, I'm not even going to do a water change until something creeps up. I have a piece of filter floss from my sisters old aquarium (i may take more) and maybe that's what is keeping the water in good shape.

Any advice from pros is welcome.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

were you using dechlorinator when you did water changes, there's nothing in your old routine that's wrong and not doing water changes could seriously mess things up. there's a link in my sig called 'weekly maintenance' which explains exactly what you need to do on a regular basis. have a read through.

 

[Brette]

were you using dechlorinator

Yep, used a dechlorinator.

I plan on doing regular water changes once the tank is more established. But for nowI have a new tank and I'm under the impression stuff needs to get established. I'm going to keep doing tests, if I see anything get out of hand I'll do a water change but for the next few weeks I don't plan on doing very much frankly. I really went overboard and learned the hard way. My tank was completely out of whack.

I've never had a complete tank meltdown like I did last week even as teenager (when I'd never even heard of water changes). My tanks were always healthy. I think there's a fine balance between cleaning, water changes and stock levels and I think I just overcompensated because I was paranoid about having a new tank this time. My fish would have probably recovered from the columnaris had I been a little more conservative about the water. That's my 2 bit opinion. But I may never really know.

 

[rdd1952]

A couple things jump out that were most likely your problem and totally unrelated to cleaning. First, 16 fish in a 25 gallon tank that has only been set up for 2 months is a lot. Since you didn't have a test kit, most likely, your parameters were way off with high ammonia and nitrite. Most diseases are triggered by poor water conditions so that probably caused the infection and columnaris although, if you were adding fish without quarantining them, you probably also introduced the infection via new fish. But any issue can set off problems until the tank is established.

Second, the fish you had (cardinals and diamonds) don't need salt. They are freshwater so salt will do more harm than good. It can be used in small doses to treat some problems but shouldn't be used on a regular basis.

Do you have a test kit now? If not, you need to get one, (liquid, not strips) and keep a check on the patameters. Just because the water looks clean and clear doesn't mean you don't have a problem with ammonia and nitrite.

One last thing, depending on where you live. I live near Charlotte, NC and the fish stores here basically don't carry cardinals because the ones they get from their suppliers are not very hardy and very prone to problems. I tried for a long time to find some and finally asked several of the stores and got the same answer so that could be one of the issues with the cardinals. In most places that are considered to be pretty hardy but not around here.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i agree with the above totally

i strongly doubt that water changes were your problem at all and not doing them now would be very very dangerous to your fish.

Please don't think I'm being harsh to you, just trying to stop you making a mistake here, but it sounds like you've just latched onto something as the cause of your problems with no real evidence to back it up and I think you've latched onto the wrong reason. So please stop thinking that cleaning the tank killed your fish, I'm sorry but you're wrong.

As rdd said what most likely did it is too many fish in an immature tank caused poor water quality, because you weren't testing you didn't know this and then as a result of that you got an outbreak of columnaris and from there the tank went downhill.

The best thing you can do now is read as many of the pinned topics as you can, they will give you a much more comprehensive understanding of the environment that you are trying to maintain, then establish a regular pattern of testing and maintenance.

we are not fishkeepers we are water keepers, look after the water and the fish will look after themselves.

 

[Brette]

About the salt...i was only using it to help with the columnaris. Wasn't using it regularly.

And about too many fish too soon... I think you're right. 2 months felt like a long time but I guess it wasn't enough for the aquarium.

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to take it much slower this time, and Miss Wiggle, I promise to do water changes.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

great news!


let us know if you've any more questions, we'd be more than happy to help you onto the coruse of sucessful fishkeeping