Diy Fertilizer/pmdd

[assemblywizard]

On the web, I found a couple of interesting URLs dealing with homemade fertilizers:

http/www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2006...70103180400.htm

and

http/www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html

These avoid the use of ammonia/urea/nitrite based ingredients and should be inline with what is offered commercially.

Has anyone used/experimented with the data presented on these pages, or similar?

Thanks in advance,
assemblywizard

 

[SuperColey1]

There is no problem with the use of Urea in planted fertiliser!!! In fact Tropica Plant Nutrition + uses Urea for it's N and this is the best 'off the shelf' fert in the market at the mo!!!

This is what I use and it works a treat for me (with 20% weekly water changes and pressurised CO2 injection)

http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/PMDD.htm

Andy

 

[MoondustBob]

http/ukaps.org/EI.htm

 

[assemblywizard]

There is no problem with the use of Urea in planted fertiliser!!! In fact Tropica Plant Nutrition + uses Urea for it's N and this is the best 'off the shelf' fert in the market at the mo!!!

This is what I use and it works a treat for me (with 20% weekly water changes and pressurised CO2 injection)

[URL="http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/PMDD.htm"]http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/PMDD.htm[/URL]

Andy

Hmmm ...

As I understand the "Nitrogen Cycle", it goes like this: urea -> ammonium/ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate.

While urea, ammonia and nitrite are used for terrestrial plants, they must be broken down to a nitrate compound before they can be used by the plants (according to my research). Although these have low toxicity to plants (and soil bacteria actually "feed" on them--i.e., urea, ammonia, nitrites), ammonia, particularly, can be highly toxic to fish, and apparently, also the others to varying degrees/conditions.

Generally, urea, ammonia and presumably nitrites are all cheaper than the nitrate fertilizers.

I would just choose to go directly to the form of nitrogen plants can directly use, and especially in an aquarium situtation.

And, while an aquarium in excellent health, with abundant plantings can, most likely, handle this nitrogen cycle with no ill effects on the fish, I don't wish to go this particular route.

So, my main question still stands, in greater detail here:

1) Has anyone used or is using the potassium sulphate, magnesium sulphate, potassium nitrate and micronutrient mix?

2) Has anyone "played around" with the formula for this/these mixes and achieved near perfect balance between added compounds and consistant and good water quality tests (near perfect absorbation of nutrients by plants?)

3) Anyone have good sources of obtaining the necessary ingredients (in my area I am having a particularly difficult time locating a source of potassium sulphate in relatively small quantities--i.e., ag supply outlets will supply me by the ton!)

4) Are your results worse/equal/better to the aquarium fertilizers you have purchased/used?

5) etc.

Or, in other words, I am looking for posts/comments/ideas/reports/etc. from those who have used or are using this/these fertilizing methods.

However, thanks very much for your post, it is only from everyones input(s) can a good "picture" be drawn, or all details be drawn out for discussion!

Regards,
JS

 

[MoondustBob]

Read the EI article, then read it again. All questions are answered there. Salts are available from Aqua Essentials and Garden Direct.

 

[SuperColey1]

Well if the best off the shelf aquarium plant fertiliser uses Urea then it can't be bad. Thats not to say that we should be mixing it with our DIY mixes. They have the benefit of laboratories. This is why we use Potassium Nitrate for our N.

There are a couple of people on UKaps at the moment experimenting with urea usage instead of pot Nit though.

Andy

 

[assemblywizard]

Read the EI article, then read it again. All questions are answered there. Salts are available from Aqua Essentials and Garden Direct.

I think you would be better off reading my original question, then my restated question in the reply, above--where I directly gave examples of the type of data I was requesting. I was not asking for any data on over the counter preparations and or the safety of urea/ammonia/nitrites (I would NEVER use urea, but if I did, I would also consider peeing in my aquarium, as this too would be an excellent source of urea--plus a wide range of micro-nutrients.) However, my question DID NOT ask for additional reading-material/data on subjects of a wider scope. Thanks anyway.

Or, in summary, I asked what I meant and meant what I asked ...

Regards,
JS

 

[assemblywizard]

Well if the best off the shelf aquarium plant fertiliser uses Urea then it can't be bad. Thats not to say that we should be mixing it with our DIY mixes. They have the benefit of laboratories. This is why we use Potassium Nitrate for our N.

There are a couple of people on UKaps at the moment experimenting with urea usage instead of pot Nit though.

Andy

Here in the USA we use Urea for cattle feed; it is mixed over molasses then poured over cornstalks, processed sugar beet pulp, etc. and fed. The cattle thrive with no ill effects. In my back yard I have a couple of 80 pound sacks of urea. It is in the form of little white "beads" which readily dissolve in water. When sprinkled on my lawn and watered in, in a few days, it is broken down by the soil organisms to nitrates and the result being, I have the "DEEP-GREENIST" lawn for miles around.

Urea has remarkable properties and uses which provide remarkable benefits. My aquarium is not on those lists ... like I said in a reply above, at the same moment I considered Urea, I would also consider peeing in my aquarium. Pee has even more remarkable qualities and properties than Urea:

1) Pee is cheap!

2) Pee is readily available, indeed, it is FREE.

3) Pee also contains potassium and phosphorus (and in about the right ratios to be a decent fertilizer.)

4) Pee contains ALL the micro-nutrients necessary to life.

5) Pee contains traces of vitamin B1 (and God knows what others), which is/[may be] of benefit to plants (B1 provides a growth-like hormone action.)

6) Pee contains traces of various amino acids; who knows, these may benefit plants?

7) I am sure I am missing adding something to this list ...

Thanks,
JS

 

[Dave Spencer]

I would just choose to go directly to the form of nitrogen plants can directly use, and especially in an aquarium situtation.

The preferred source of N for your plants will be dissolved inorganic nitrogen. Plants assimilate NO3 to make NH4, so having NH4 present as DIN will present your plants with their preferred choice. Personally, I haven`t gone down the urea route, so I add my N via Potassium nitrate.

1) Has anyone used or is using the potassium sulphate, magnesium sulphate, potassium nitrate and micronutrient mix?

I add NPK via cheap salts bought in the UK, these being Potassium nitrate and Potassium phosphate. There is also a cheap trace mix in powder form too, but I do have some Tropica trace given as a freebie which I like to use. Due to low Mg and Ca levels in my tap water, I add a pinch of GH booster every water change.

2) Has anyone "played around" with the formula for this/these mixes and achieved near perfect balance between added compounds and consistant and good water quality tests (near perfect absorbation of nutrients by plants?)

I am not sure what you mean by a perfect balance, but the philosophy of water column dosing is to have all your nutrients in excess at all times.

 

[assemblywizard]

...

The preferred source of N for your plants will be dissolved inorganic nitrogen. Plants assimilate NO3 to make NH4, so having NH4 present as DIN will present your plants with their preferred choice. Personally, I haven`t gone down the urea route, so I add my N via Potassium nitrate.


...

I add NPK via cheap salts bought in the UK, these being Potassium nitrate and Potassium phosphate. There is also a cheap trace mix in powder form too, but I do have some Tropica trace given as a freebie which I like to use. Due to low Mg and Ca levels in my tap water, I add a pinch of GH booster every water change.

...

I am not sure what you mean by a perfect balance, but the philosophy of water column dosing is to have all your nutrients in excess at all times.
[/quote]

Dave,


An excellent post which demonstrates the response(s) I was expecting.

Yes, nitrates has been the form of N I have choose and am using. I have played with some calcium nitrate in addition to potassium nitrate; since my aquarium "drifts" towards acid ph, the calcium in calcium nitrate interests me in correcting this while providing a fertilizing action also (kills two birds with one stone.) However, climb with no addition of nitrates, mostly, so I do 33% water changes every couple of days so I can supplement nitrogen. Since the aquarium in question has only been up less than three months, at some point this may correct itself. If this lasts much longer, I may look at only adding potassium, increasing the addition of P to a VERY low level, increasing lighting, adding carbon dioxide and seek to balance the "natural" increase in nitrogen with increase plant use/growth. (this, most likely, is the result of overfeeding and the types of food fed--beef heart, shrimp, etc. It is difficult to control my wifes habits. <grin>)

I refrain from use of potassium phosphate. As soon as I add a form of phosphate algae growth accelerates. At one point, I had a very nice "pea soup" algae bloom in my tank from the phosphates. Ceasing all use of phosphates, along with deionized water changes, quickly corrected this.

I am in agreement, without an excess of N-P-K there is nothing for the plants to consume. At the present moment I have 35 ppm K and 20 ppm N, the P is unknown.

Thanks for your excellent response,
regards,
JS

 

[SuperColey1]

Seems you already knew the answers to your own questions before you posted the OP. Therefore why ask and why be so rude. 5 posts in and you are snapping at people who are trying to help when you don't want it.

And FYI phosphates do not cause algae. Get your facts right and research modern philosophies rather than sticking to the outdated and proven wrong theories of Sears and Collins of P=Algae!!!

They themselves admitted this was wrong.

If I were you I would go over to the barrreport.com and read everything on there before starting to quote 'old school' theories. This is one of the problems with this forum these days. everyone thinks they know but still ask!! Why.

If you have a question then ask it but be prepared for some people to misunderstand the question or add something they think may be helpful. You cannot expect a perfect line of repsonse relating specifically to the questions you are asking.

As for the Has anyone used the Pot Nit, Pot Sulph, Trace and magnesium question. I doubt you will get many replies different from mine because the answer is an emphatic No. Reason : We all add Phosphate and mainly in the form of Pot Phos. without phosphate plants are defficient and then algae starts.

So do we use N, K, Mg + Trace......No
Do we use N, P, K, Mg + Trace....Some of us.
A lot of people do without the Mg as it is more often than not in the water. I do add Mg

Patience and politeness cost nothing you know.

Andy

 

[assemblywizard]

Seems you already knew the answers to your own questions before you posted the OP. Therefore why ask and why be so rude. 5 posts in and you are snapping at people who are trying to help when you don't want it.

And FYI phosphates do not cause algae. Get your facts right and research modern philosophies rather than sticking to the outdated and proven wrong theories of Sears and Collins of P=Algae!!!

They themselves admitted this was wrong.

If I were you I would go over to the barrreport.com and read everything on there before starting to quote 'old school' theories. This is one of the problems with this forum these days. everyone thinks they know but still ask!! Why.

If you have a question then ask it but be prepared for some people to misunderstand the question or add something they think may be helpful. You cannot expect a perfect line of repsonse relating specifically to the questions you are asking.

As for the Has anyone used the Pot Nit, Pot Sulph, Trace and magnesium question. I doubt you will get many replies different from mine because the answer is an emphatic No. Reason : We all add Phosphate and mainly in the form of Pot Phos. without phosphate plants are defficient and then algae starts.

So do we use N, K, Mg + Trace......No
Do we use N, P, K, Mg + Trace....Some of us.
A lot of people do without the Mg as it is more often than not in the water. I do add Mg

Patience and politeness cost nothing you know.

Andy

Andy:

I am sorry, brother, if you drew the WRONG conclusions about my response to your post. Actually, I was thanking you that you stayed focused.

Yes, I read Sears and Collins; did I believe them without testing(?), NO! I do find, in my aquarium--at least, phosphates DO relate to algae, but perhaps only in specialized conditions--and I DO appear to have those/that ...

IMHO, Urea = Pee ... do I really need say more; if I become inclined towards Urea--Pee is a good source (and I tend to have more than enough after a pint or two <grin>) (75-90% of the solids in pee is/are Urea.) Plus, there is all "that other stuff" which is good for plants!

Brother, I have ALL the patience in the world--I am here ... please reread my response to your post--it was NOT meant to be impolite.

Indeed, I have NO reason to provoke a "difference" between the Brits and the Americans--I like Brits (I like the Aussie women better--but then, that is only a matter of taste. <grin>)

I have no bone to pick with you ... you will surely come to realize that.

Now, as to "the other", I add NO phosphates at the moment ... well, other than in the decomposing food I feed the fish. Perhaps at a later date? My plants (the Elodea is doing better than an American inch a day! seem to prosper.)

Please, look for no problem where none exists ...

Warm regards,
JS