Diy Co2

[fiskkeeperpro]

Im goint to use DIY co2 (got the system), im using the yeast method as in the stickies. To keep on top of co2, should i empty and put a new mixture in of yeat, sugar etc every week or 2?
My yeast says use within 28 days of opening. Should i throw it away after 28days or will it still be ok to use? I dont know if the 28days thing is for cooking.

thanks

Will

 

[Egmel]

To keep on top of co2, should i empty and put a new mixture in of yeat, sugar etc every week or 2?

This depends on your mixture but yes you'll need to replace it regularly, keep an eye on the bubbles to see when. If you're going the full DIY route then the best option is to have 2 bottles which you can replace alternately. This helps smooth out the dips when the yeast has had enough.

My yeast says use within 28 days of opening. Should i throw it away after 28days or will it still be ok to use? I dont know if the 28days thing is for cooking.

Which yeast are you buying? Most dried yeast will last at least 4 months, especially if kept in a sealed container in the fridge/larder. Personally I'd be happy to use it after this time too, but you may need to up the dosage a little, as I say experiment a bit and see what works for you.

 

[aaronnorth]

change it weekly to keep a lot of co2 being produced, otherwise, get another one and change one one week than the other another...

It will probobaly ;ast 1month but not as much will be produced

 

[wslinky]

I am using 2 DIY bottle on my 80g, the way I am doing it is 1/2 tsp yeast 1cup sugar. Somewhere I read to add protein powder as there is nutrients in there to help keep the yeast alive longer, so I add about 1/2 tbls of that. I change 1 bottle every 7-10day to keep my 2-3 bubble per second.

I bought my yeast in the beginning of December 2007 and it is still going strong, I have stored it in the glass container in the freezer.

 

[aaronnorth]

Somewhere I read to add protein powder as there is nutrients in there to help keep the yeast alive longer, so I add about 1/2 tbls of that.

You are just wasting your money on that, the yeast should last for 7-10 days no probs without any additions, it is sometimes advisable to add bicarbonate soda to keep the ph dropping to low if you hav a low kh.

 

[sjdriscoll]

I've just experimented with adding 1/2 tsp of Marmite to my DIY mix and it has made a huge difference! My drop checker actually went yellow!

It has really boosted the output and kept it stable too so, while I wouldn't waste money on protein powder, I can see the reasoning behind it.

Has anybody else tried this? What results did you get?

 

[Egmel]

*debates liberating some of her housemates whey protein... it being 2yrs out of date anyway...*

 

[aaronnorth]

I've just experimented with adding 1/2 tsp of Marmite to my DIY mix and it has made a huge difference! My drop checker actually went yellow!

It has really boosted the output and kept it stable too so, while I wouldn't waste money on protein powder, I can see the reasoning behind it.

Has anybody else tried this? What results did you get?

But you don't know if it will tire the yeast out in a few days.

more co2 may last shorter, it will only last so long.

also you say you see the reason behind adding protein, he changes the mixture every 7-10 days anyway and what i was trying to say is that it will last that long anyway, it may pro-long it for up to a month but if you are changing the mixture weekly, is there much point?

 

[wslinky]

I've just experimented with adding 1/2 tsp of Marmite to my DIY mix and it has made a huge difference! My drop checker actually went yellow!

It has really boosted the output and kept it stable too so, while I wouldn't waste money on protein powder, I can see the reasoning behind it.

Has anybody else tried this? What results did you get?

But you don't know if it will tire the yeast out in a few days.

more co2 may last shorter, it will only last so long.

also you say you see the reason behind adding protein, he changes the mixture every 7-10 days anyway and what i was trying to say is that it will last that long anyway, it may pro-long it for up to a month but if you are changing the mixture weekly, is there much point?

I change my mixture every 7-10days so I can keep the bubble rate high, it starts at about 3bpm by 7 days it is closer to 2bpm. I have an 80g tank and don't think the DIY can keep up with it, I am waiting on a drop checker still so I can have a closer guess at my CO2 levels.

Here is a Power Point file with the exact recipe I follow as well as an explanation of the protein powder. Link, The file is mostly about yeast and its growth but there is some info about other planted tank subjects.

 

[sjdriscoll]

Aaron - The Marmite thing seems to be working really well - I swap out one of my bottles every 7 - 10 days so each bottle is actually running for 14 - 20 days. Sorry that I didn't make that clear. I now have both bottles on Marmite and the first one is still going strong after a week. It usually drops off a bit after a few days but this hasn't happened yet. Yeast grow better when they have all that they need - and that is more than just sugar. They need trace elements just like every other living thing.

But your right, they will produce CO2 for 7 days without any other additives no problem. I was just experimenting on prolonging the process to cut my sugar costs!

wslinky - do you really mean bubbles per minute? 2-3 bpm is way off the requirements - you need 1-2 bps(econd) to achieve 30ppm CO2. DIY is only really viable up to around 20 gallons - 80gallons will require pressurised CO2.

 

[wslinky]

wslinky - do you really mean bubbles per minute? 2-3 bpm is way off the requirements - you need 1-2 bps(econd) to achieve 30ppm CO2. DIY is only really viable up to around 20 gallons - 80gallons will require pressurised CO2.

I did mean bpS not M, oops I thought I did that while reading another post but didn't come back to check.

 

[fiskkeeperpro]

i added the nutrafin mixture (the sticky) to my canister today. Still, after 3-4 hours ther eis no CO2 bubbling in my bubble counter? Is this normal? Im not using the nutrafin system but the hydor fermentation system instead. As the hydor one has a motor diffuser would the nutrafin ladder be a good idea? How does the nutrafin system work, is there any motors/ pumps involved?

thanks

will

 

[aaronnorth]

No, nutrafin is a simple as it gets, wait forr 24hr then if nothing happens then the mixture might not be right, also, you may need more/ less sugar depending on size of cannister because they might be different.

Aaron - The Marmite thing seems to be working really well

I can see the point in marmite because it boosts the co2 output, but the protein just prolongs it.

 

[Egmel]

I can see the point in marmite because it boosts the co2 output, but the protein just prolongs it.

Just reading that little presentation and here's the relevant bits...

Yeast can either produce energy by fermentation or oxidative phosphorylation (ox/phos)
Yeast greatly prefer fermentation over ox/phos and will not start ox/phos until all the sugars are converted to ethanol.
Ethanol is a good source of energy and in the presence of oxygen yeast use it up as well.
Fermentation also produces 2 CO2 molecules per molecule of sugar-- as a by product. =)

When you just add sugar and water to yeast, they are essentially starving to death.
However the enzymes for converting sugar to ethanol are still in the cell and will work for a limited amount of time.
Since the cells do not have what they need to make new enzymes as cells starve/run out of enzymes the culture produces less and less CO2.

Ethanol and sugar are increasingly toxic to yeast at greater than 10% concentrations.
- Therefore 2cups (~500ml) of sugar in 2L of water (~25% sugar) is unhealthy for the yeast.
- It is also a waste of sugar because 10% sugar will yield roughly 10% Ethanol at which point the yeast stop growing anyway.
- Special strains of yeast, like champaine and wine yeast, have stronger cell walls that protect them from the Ethanol -- so they grow longer.

The solution is to give yeast less sugar and also supply them with the nutrients they need to grow.
This will give you a long lived culture that produces a consistent amount of CO2, (they are not challenged by toxic conditions at the beginning and end)
Also your yeast mass at the end will be alive and well and able to quickly start growing again when you add more sugar.

Improvise at will, but here is a good start:

• Use 1 cup sugar per 2L H20 (tank water is great or dechlorinated tap -- chlorine, but not ammonia, kill yeast. ) (they like ammonia)
• Add 1-2 tsp of a protein drink mix
• (optional) Add 1 tsp of ammonium sulfate, otherwise use 1 T mollasses. (or both)
• 1 tsp baking soda is also nice to keep the pH from crashing (they like it >pH3-4)
• Leave yeast from previous mix in the bottom.

Growing yeast this way saves you time (less re-starting) and money on sugar and yeast.
The only real extra cost is the protein mix, but you can use really old/cheap stuff.
The key thing is that it has protein and vitamin/minerals, Anything that has “yeast extract” in it is perfect.
(Even non-fat powdered milk will do the trick, but it will smell funny)

So from what I understand you're providing a better living environment for the yeast so that it grows stronger (more CO2) and longer (less changes). Worth some experimentation. I've got my nutrafin currently running with GF's pinned version from this forum. I'll measure the BPS and see how long it lasts. Then I shall try the method with the protein powder and see if there's any difference. All with good experimental technique of course

If i can manage to get the marmite from the jar to the cannister without it falling on some hot buttered toast then I might test that as well

 

[wslinky]

i added the nutrafin mixture (the sticky) to my canister today. Still, after 3-4 hours ther eis no CO2 bubbling in my bubble counter? Is this normal? Im not using the nutrafin system but the hydor fermentation system instead. As the hydor one has a motor diffuser would the nutrafin ladder be a good idea? How does the nutrafin system work, is there any motors/ pumps involved?

thanks

will

If after your 24 hour wait you still aren't getting bubble you may want to "Activate" the yeast before adding it to the mixture. Add the yeast to 2-3 tbs of 30C-40C(85F-104F) water with a pinch of sugar, 40C is actually the optimum temperature. Beat mixture with a fork to introduce O2, then let it sit for 5-10 minutes, you should end up with a foam on top of the mixture when done. This give the yeast a chance to rehydrate and start the whole process while they have some O2 available which is necessary at the very beginning. Now add this to your canister.

Here is a quote from another page with some good info on DIY CO2, Link

Unlike compressed yeast, which disperses in cold water without any problems, the temperature of the water during rehydration is important when working with dry yeast. When yeast is dried, the cell membrane becomes more porous. During rehydration, the membrane recovers. However, in the process of rehydration, some cell constituents are dissolved in the water used. The optimum water temperature for cell membrane restoration is 104º F. Warm water is effective in this process, because it leads to more rapid cell membrane recovery. Cold water impedes this process, because it slows membrane recovery and allows more cell constituents to leach out during the reconstitution process. The effect is not that great between 70º and 100º F, but at lower temperatures approximately one-quarter to one-half of soluble yeast cell constituents can be lost. This leaching action effects yeast activity in the following manner: Most yeast enzymes remain, but the soluble chemicals are depleted, and it is these chemicals that promote enzyme activity.