Diy "aqua Ray" Set-up

[rabbut]

Hi all.

Due to the heat of a 150W halide over a 70l nano, I need to change lighting before spring... So, LED's. I can't afford the Aqua Rays I need if I want hard corals later down the line, and need a more "cost effective" solution... I was 1 mark off an A* in my Systems and Control, Electronics GCSE, so can solder and do the maths behind the electronics with reasonable competancy. The hard bit is converting lighting output ratings for me...

I'm looking at these LED's for the "marine white" part of the equation...

3.2V/30mA operating voltage/current, with a 180mW power consumption each. They output light at an intensity of 6000-7000mcd. Anyone have any Idea what that is in PAR? What would be a "typical" PAR output for a 150W halide? Those details will let me do the maths on how many I need There is no mention of the output colour there though, so I'm going to drop them an e-mail to see if they have that info...

I'm looking at these for my night blues. Would they likely have the same effect as "Reef Blues"?

These have a 1300 mcd output, and a 470nm colour. Anyone know the kelvin and PAR ratings?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[xxBarneyxx]

cant help im afraid but watching this thread as I have been thinking of doing the same. If I find any useful info myself I will post it here.

 

[ben1987]

im interested in what you come up with aswel! I cant see how TMC can justify the price tag tbh, even though i bought some

 

[keenonfish]

Hi all.

Due to the heat of a 150W halide over a 70l nano, I need to change lighting before spring... So, LED's. I can't afford the Aqua Rays I need if I want hard corals later down the line, and need a more "cost effective" solution... I was 1 mark off an A* in my Systems and Control, Electronics GCSE, so can solder and do the maths behind the electronics with reasonable competancy. The hard bit is converting lighting output ratings for me...

I'm looking at these LED's for the "marine white" part of the equation...

3.2V/30mA operating voltage/current, with a 180mW power consumption each. They output light at an intensity of 6000-7000mcd. Anyone have any Idea what that is in PAR? What would be a "typical" PAR output for a 150W halide? Those details will let me do the maths on how many I need There is no mention of the output colour there though, so I'm going to drop them an e-mail to see if they have that info...

I'm looking at these for my night blues. Would they likely have the same effect as "Reef Blues"?

These have a 1300 mcd output, and a 470nm colour. Anyone know the kelvin and PAR ratings?

All the best
Rabbut

I have never heard of a PAR rating and I did me BNC in Electronic & Electrical. IS this something to do with lamp / reflector combo or something the aquarium industry has made up? (off to do a google search as we speak)
Regarding choice of LED's I would forget Maplin straight away and go to RS or CPC - basically somewhere that is happy to supply full manufacturers data sheets for the product in question (although Maplin may still offer this service but it will be chargeable). Register with RS you should be able to download the datasheet. Never seen PAR rating for LED normally Candelas & wavelength.
I think you will need a combination of led colours to reproduce that of the light from a halide or Flo tube (white LEDS are in fact blue chips that excite a phosphor which is why they usually appear more toward blue end of spectrum but warmer versions are available) also you might want to look at the Luxeon star range of LED's or equivalent that offer far higher outputs than standard packages (power consumption in the watts).

Good luck I will also be keeping an eye on your thread I am too busy to even get my aquarium filled atm so everything out the window

 

[rabbut]

As I understood it, PAR is a measure of light output and a way to therefore compair light intensity

Getting different colour LED's is an interesting point, as I remember them having a dominant output where almost all the light comes from, rather than a full spectral-spread... This is something that I had not thoughts about. A blue tint to the light would be OK though, as it will bring out fish colours more This said, it might slow coral growth

I'm going to poke arround those suppliers you mention now

Thanks Keenonfish
Rabbut

EDIT to add. According to the CPC site, a 150W halide will output 11,000mcd (see here). These LED's have a 2100mcd output. Either the mcd intensity scale is logarythmic (in which case I have a probelm. I failed my maths AS due to logs...), or those LED's are realy bright, needing only 6 to output the equivilant amount of light

 

[xxBarneyxx]

lol this is why I havent do it myself yet. Building a LED unit wouldnt be a problem but working out what LEDS I need is kind of beyond me at the moment

 

[rabbut]

I think I'll try a unit with 4 rows of 8, spaced about 3" away from each other to start. If needs be, I can add more. If not, and they are too bright, I can up the control resistors resistance to limit the current an voltage to the LED's, reducing their output For those that diden't see my thread in freshwater hardware, I'm going to get these dimmed, such that they fade on and off

I'm probibly going to use 3 rows of 8 of these blue LED's for the nightlights... With a 540mcd output, they should be bright enough to make the tank viewable, but dim enough to not keep the fish awake

I have a circuit diagram drawn and scanned, but I can't get it to upload onto Photobucket ATM The unit will bascially copy a similar solution I did for a friend some time ago now, only I'm going to scrap the decorative cover on this one... If it works well in marine, I may consider a unit for my Discus tank to see how "punchy" these are in a deap tank

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Schmill]

The issue between the 150W Halide, and the LED's MCD is probably down to what mcd is actually telling you.

MCD means millicandella, (and a common candle gives off light of approx. 1 candella, or 1000 MCD)
MCD is defined as;

The luminous intensity, in a given direction, of a source that emits monochromatic radiation of frequency 540×1012 hertz and that has a radiant intensity in that direction of 1/683 watt per steradian.

The point being that it is a measure of the light given in a particular direction. So in that respect, the LED (which is usually primarily 'forward focused') can appear to have a high light output, (which it does, but perhaps only in one direction).

You really need to take into account the diffusion angle of the lenses on LED's as well.

Perhaps a better unit of measure for comparison would be Lumens, which take into account the spread of the light as well;

Radiation angle   Divide CD by 
5°				167.22 
10°				41.82 
15°				18.50 
20°				10.48 
25°				 6.71 
30°				 4.67 
35°				 3.44 
40°				 2.64 
45°				 2.09

If the source emits light uniformly in all directions, the flux can be found by multiplying the intensity by 4π: a uniform 1 candela source emits 12.6 lumens

So for instance, (and I have no idea on the spread of a halide), if the halide has a spread of 45 degrees:

11,000mcd = 11 CD
11 / 2.09 = 5.26 Lumens

Of course this REALLY depends on what the 'viewing angle' of a Halide is, if the angle was more like 160 degrees, (almost full downward spread), you would be talking close to 57 Lumens.

The LED's in comparison are quote as 2,100mcd and 30 degree viewing angle, which has a Lumen rating of approximately 0.450 Lumens.

The reason that the Lumen figure is approximate is again because of the way that the MCD figure is specified. When calculating lumens it is assumed that if the LED states "2100mcd, 30 degree angle", then it gives 2100mcd at everypoint within that 30 degree viewing angle, however it is possible that this will only be the brightness 'straight on', and a reduced brightness will be observed as you approach the 30 degrees.

There is a bit on LED's on the following site, and also a calculator to convert mcd & viewing angle to lumens:
Lumen Calc

However, it seems that really the best plan is going to be a 'try it and see' method, as there is so much variablity with the LEDs, and how their brightness and spread are specified.
In general, the less angle an LED gives, the more intense the light, (but the more of them you will need to cover the same area), and conversly the wider the viewing angle, the less intense the single point brightness will be, (needing less LED's to achive the spread, but more LED's to achive the same illumination levels).

 

[rabbut]

Schmill, thanks, that was a very informative read. I will be making use of that calculator in a moment. The Halides have a fairly consistant ouput on most views (i.e. painfully bright to look at) and most LED's I've worked on output from the front mainly...

Anyhow, let me pull the stats up and start making use of your link

Anyone having issues with Photobucket ATM? I keep getting IMG upload errors when I try to upload my circuit diagram...

All the best
Rabbut

EDIT to add numbers;

LED lumen output 0.450 lumens
Halide lumen output 138.230 lumens

Number of LED's required this way 307.... Looks a bit more realistic an somewhat less feasable... Mebe I should up it to 100-150 from the origional 32

 

[garybuk]

Would these help??

Hear

ebay 2

ebay 3


I know someone who used a one of them g4 bulbs on hear to make a refugium on there nano tank! cant rember who tho!!!

These items may have ended but they sell plenty more!!!

P.s sorry if its the complete roung thing!

Thsese two aswell! 10w for one led!

1

2

prices go abit higher tho!

 

[rabbut]

It's interesting to see what commercial products are out there for lighting tasks. Unfortunately they aren't realy any help, due to a lack of any technical specification on their output Thanks for posting anyway though

All the best
Rabbut

 

[garybuk]

It's interesting to see what commercial products are out there for lighting tasks. Unfortunately they aren't realy any help, due to a lack of any technical specification on their output Thanks for posting anyway though

All the best
Rabbut

Ahh sorry alll the best , keep us updated!!!!

 

[rabbut]

Will do. Need cash to go any further. That will involve a few extra days at work over Xmas, and I also need to finish stocking the reef tank

 

[SkiFletch]

As you're discovering Rabbut, the main problem with DIY LED solutions is finding the right LED's. The soldering and electrical design is really simple. Sourcing the right LED is a three-fold problem. First is finding the right output LED's. Usually you'll need to look in the 1watt to 3watt per LED range if you want enough light output to get enough PAR on the corals. Lumen output gives you an IDEA of light, but Photosynthetically Available Radiation is ultimately the best predictor of how well the lamps will perform in the aquarium world.

And therein we come to the second difficulty which is sourcing an LED with the right spectral output. LED's have EXTREMELY tight bands of output wavelength. They dont have a wide spectral output like halides or or flourescents. And since non-aquarium applications do not care what the EXACT output of the LED is, only what the "color" looks like, we can't really be sure if they're the right wavelength for the job.

Finally, if you do manage to find 1-3watt LEDs, you will actually have a heat issue. It's not so much the wattage that's the problem, it's the tiny tiny area in which the wattage is created. Often times higher-wattage LEDs HAVE heatsinks behind them, but if not, you may need to consider something to help remove the heat from the center.

I've been looking for a good DIY LED for a while here on this side of the pond still with no real success. Good luck

 

[Crazy fishes]

I do not know if this is allowed or if it is just links to other forums (sorry if it is), but in nano-reef.com some guy has built his own LED unit. It is the full saga from beginning to end but he is based in the states. I think he was saying that it cost him $650-$700!! Have a look and see what you think.
I am sorry but I don't remember the guy's name but he corresponded a lot with a guy named Evil (Avatar: picture of devil).

Regards