Disease diagnosis?:

[Fawke]

Hi there,

I am not sure if this is the first signs of whitespot (ICH), but my fish are rubbing themselves (kind of like a flick against rocks + plants), occasionally breathing at the surface (but Gouramis do that a bit anyhow - bubble nests).

No white spots or any exterior signs of the disease.

I was wondering what this could be (hopefully not a disease) as they dont seem to have all the symptoms of ICH.

The Nitrite has just peaked and is slowly on its way down, although still high.
Ammonia is down.
I have been doing 1 or 2 x 40-50% water changes everyday to combat the cycle and give the fish as much support through it.
Also been adding chlorine remover/ herbal stress relief to the new water and have been adding Cycle to speed the cycle up and add nitrifying bacteria.

ANY more ideas would be much appreciated. I don't want to raise any water temp if the fish will get more stressed.
I will continue with the wayer changes but really hope they will be OK after the nitrites go down - shall i just wait to see how things progress as the nitrites go down?

Thanks Guys

----
Fawke

Tank Setup:

30" x 18" x 18" (35 gals)
External Filter

3 Opaline (2Gold 2Blue) Gourami's
1 Pictus Catfish
1 Plec

 

[Fawke]

sorry corrections -

Water changes are 40-50% in total, and sometimes done in 2 halves (hence the 1-2 times)

3 Gouramis (2 gold 1 blue)

Iliterate git i am ;-)

 

[buggyboutbettas]

It doesn't seem like Ich. my betta has Ich; he acts just like normal except that he has those tiny white spots on him.
maybe Nitrite posioning?

 

[Tweety]

I was advised not to buy our Gourami's until the tank was establish. 3 months. This is as they don't handle bad water conditions well. So it sounds like the Nitrite to me.

HTH, I'm new to this game so maybe somebody can confirm if this is correct.

 

[tstenback]

What is the NItrite reading? It is most likely the effects of the high nitrite that are causing this. It is very common for fish to scratch during this time of the cycle. As long as it is not a continuous scratching everything should be OK. Just keep an eye out as this scratching is the precursor to a variety of diseases as well but i think you are ok right now. HTH

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Fawke

It sounds like the high nitrites are taking their toll on your gouramis. Actually, gouramis can tolerate fairly bad water conditions that many other fish could not, but nevertheless, nitrites will burn them.

The best thing to do is bring the nitrites down with water changes. There is nothing wrong with taking a long time to cycle the tank, if it means keeping the environment tolerable for the fish.

Do be aware that high nitrites can be one of the things that weaken the fish and leave them vulnerable to bacterial infections, so if you see any fungusy looking growths or deteriorating fins or tails, this will be the problem, so treat it accordingly. Keeping your temperature around 75 degrees and keeping the surface of the water moving so that plenty of oxygen gets into the water will help keep the bacterial growth at a minimum.

It does sound like you are well on your way with the cycling process, so good luck with it, and I hope it finishes up soon.

 

[Sky042]

I was advised not to buy our Gourami's until the tank was establish. 3 months. This is as they don't handle bad water conditions well. So it sounds like the Nitrite to me.

HTH, I'm new to this game so maybe somebody can confirm if this is correct.

gouramis are actually rather hardy fish since they're also labrynith fish they can endure poor water rather well. I actually cycled a tank with them before Though I did it with a mature biowheel from the same size tank so the peaks were almost non-existant.

 

[Fawke]

Thanks for all your replies people.

Just to clear this up for me - By doing these water changes i am actually slowing the cycle down? I am adding Cycle (Bacteria) to the new water, is this correct? or a complete waste of time?

I mean the bacteria should live in the filter, and once its there (the initial dose of Cycle) should it need replacing everytime i do a water change? I realise you cannot overdose on it, but its bloody expensive, so hopefully you guys can clear this up a little for me ?

Gouramis looking good after 50% water change last night, they are eating like crazy, as per usual.... so far so good.
Im gonna have to work the water changes

Thanks again Guys and Gals!

 

[buggyboutbettas]

yes. water changes can slow down the cycling proccess. but if it is neccesary for your fish then you should still do it a lot while it is cycling so they don't die.
Cycle does have bacteria in it that it releases in the water but I would only use the suggested amount for your tank once a week. over dosing on any of the cycling products such as stress coat, cycle, and biozyme really won't hurt your tank in any way but it also won't help much more than just putting the prescribed amount. tanking in the fact that they're overpriced as it is, I see no good reason to overdose on them. I know it seems like it will never cycle and those dang nitrites will never go down but they will. don't worry. just keep on doing water changes but do more like 30% instead of 50%. that way your bacteria will grow faster.

 

[Fawke]

thanks for that....

It doesnt actually say you should/shouldnt add some on a water change on the bottle!
But as you cant overdose it we have been adding the required amount per gallon for the new water anyhow (this is what i wasnt sure about).

So logic leads me to believe that when i add new fish (be it 1, 2, 3 or whatever) then this will create a mini-cycle until the bacteria breed to the sufficient number in order to combat the new ammonia/nitrite levels? Is this the case?
And when these dang nitrites go down, is it better to add 1-2 fish at a time, rather than a whole load (5-6) to avoid peaking out again?

Thanks for all your help, you people are great and do a fantastic job.....

Keep up the good nature man!

 

[buggyboutbettas]

you really don't need to be putting that much cycle in every time you do a water change. I have Cycle myself and I've only put it in once a week and my tank fully cycled in a little over 2 weeks. and that was while I was doing water changes almost every day.

if your tank is fully established (cycled), this is basically what happens when you add 1-3 fish:
1. they poop (doi! )
2. the ammonia in their waste builds up.
3. the good bacteria turns that ammonia into nitrites. usually the the good bacteria does it so fast that you don't even notice a spike at all.
4. nitrites build up.
5. more good bacteria turns that into much less harmful nitrates.

that's how the cycle works (sorta). if you add cycle, all it really does is help the bacterial growth and can speed up the proccess--the procces will eventually finish with or without cycle. I recommend only adding 1-3 fish at a time. however my brother added 4 baby fish to a 29 gal. tank and it did fine.
Oh yeah, you're probably thinking "what about nitrates?" well, this is what goes on with them:

6. if you have real plants the plants take in a portion of the nitrates. if you don't have real plants every time you do a water change the nitrates get diluted.

Hope this answers your questions.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi buggyboutbettas

IMHO, you did an excellent job of explaining how the cycle works.

In fact, it's never necessary to add a commercial product to aid the cycling process if you're willing to go slow enough to avoid harming the fish you are using to do it. There are many people who do not believe Cycle helps at all.

Now, the product Bio Spira, which must be kept refrigerated, is another matter.



Fawke

You will always have to add fish a few at a time, or risk upsetting the bacteria balance. But, once a tank is well settled in, all this will mean is doing a few extra water changes until the bacteria level builds up to accommodate them.

The whole thing might be a bit daunting at this point, but trust me, it will get easier as time goes by.